What if the rest you’re craving isn’t found in doing less, but in learning how to be with God in the middle of your everyday life?
In this episode, I sit down with author and Inner Revival podcast host Monika Kirkland to talk about moving from exhaustion into deeper intimacy with God. Monika shares how a season of burnout and physical symptoms forced her to reconsider the pace of her life and inspired her new book, Ever With You.
We discuss simple, sustainable ways to calm your nervous system, release what you’re carrying, and become more aware of God’s presence. Monika also opens up about surrendering the future she had planned, navigating seasons when God feels distant, rebuilding trust through grief, and breaking free from comparison.
Suggested resources:
00:00 – Introduction
02:15 – How burnout inspired Ever With You
03:40 – Childhood wounds, self-reliance, and receiving God’s love
05:05 – Moving from exhaustion into intimacy with God
06:00 – The palms-down, palms-up prayer for surrender
07:10 – Walking, prayer, and regulating the nervous system
08:20 – Spiritual exhaustion versus physical and emotional burnout
10:00 – Serving God versus truly enjoying His presence
11:10 – Slowing down and finding beauty in ordinary moments
12:55 – What to do when God feels distant
15:00 – Living with open hands and surrendering what you want
16:00 – When a dream becomes part of your identity
20:00 – Navigating seasons of transition and uncertainty
21:00 – How rumination keeps us stuck while we wait
22:50 – A holistic approach to anxiety
26:00 – Protecting your peace in an overwhelming world
26:45 – The practice of “Scripture before screens”
28:00 – Creating more than you consume
30:20 – Monika’s simple morning routine with God
32:45 – Making time for God during busy seasons
35:15 – Trusting God through grief and painful experiences
37:10 – Breaking free from comparison and envy
40:30 – Where to find Monika and Ever With You
41:15 – What being well and strong means to Monika
Jac: [00:00:00] Well, Monica, let’s just kick things off. So like I mentioned, you wrote this incredible book, Ever With You, and it’s essentially for who, right? The Christian woman who is exhausted, distracted, you said, like, running on caffeine and cortisol, and that really resonated with me.
And I just wanted to ask, I mean, I’m assuming you yourself sat with many of those emotions and feelings for quite some time, so what possessed you to write this book?
Monika: Yeah, so it was really just born out of a season of my life where, like I said, I was exhausted, running on fumes, and it was right in the spring of 2020 where I had, uh, kinda just come to the end of myself. I was, you know, homeschooling. My kids were, um, they were in school, but everything had gotten moved, you know, from online to being at home.
And, uh, I was working at the church and just kinda juggling all the things. And it was like I tried to just convince myself that I was okay, but really, like, my body was not so easily fooled. And so I ended up getting this really bad bout of vertigo. Um, [00:01:00] and I just kind of realized, like, at the doctor’s that I needed to change and reorient and reprioritize some things in a major way, or I was not gonna survive the season.
So that’s kinda what this, this book was born out of that season and all the lessons I learned along the way.
Jac: And you have three kids, Monica?
Monika: So we have four. We have, uh, three girls and a, and a boy
Jac: Okay. And I’m sure they definitely keep you busy.
Monika: Yes
Jac: And also too, Monica, um, I was reading that– I mean, your story’s really interesting. I heard that you came from a bit of like a broken and somewhat traumatic childhood. Did that also play a role in the creation of this book?
Monika: Yeah, so I, I do share some really personal, like, vulnerable stories throughout the book, um, of kind of my childhood, and I, I do think that it, it impacted me and who I was in, in that when I did become a Christian, I think it was really hard for me to, um, receive God’s love and, and I kind of was operating out of this sense of, like, self-sufficiency and self-reliance.
And, [00:02:00] um, it was like I knew in my head that God loved me, but it just wasn’t kinda penetrating into my heart, like His love for me. And so, um, I think some of the, the testimonies that I share in the story are just kind of my journey of really understanding my identity as His daughter and who I was and who He made me to be, and realizing that I wasn’t on my own anymore.
I didn’t have to kind of pull myself up by the bootstraps or grin and bear it or kind of just, like, muster enough strength and willpower to kind of, um, make it through the day, that I actually had His presence with me, the Holy Spirit, who was my helper and my comforter and my advocate. So it was a, a big kind of paradigm shift for me.
Jac: Right. And getting to just the heart of the conversation too, Monica, and kind of the heart of the book, what is one life-changing practice that you implemented that really changed the game when it came to just, like, releasing those burdens and letting things go and not running on fumes, like, 24/7?
Monika: Ugh, I mean,
there, there’s
so many that, that I unpack, so I … [00:03:00] But I love to start with, um,
in terms of, like, really, really practical, I talk about in the book, the first half of the book, that really, like, my heart was that people would move from exhaustion into intimacy. And I think I had found that, like, it was so easy for me to think that, like, the rest that I was desperate for was out there.
It was, like, in a Netflix binge, or it was in, oh, I just need a, I need a vacation, or I need a spa day, or I need this thing, or a, a glass of wine, or a bowl of ice cream, or all these things that we reach for to kind of give ourselves, um, rest. But that it would, that was actually just providing, like, temporary relief, and it wasn’t providing true, like, heart and soul restoration.
And so I think for me, the simple practices that I learned to embrace, um, one, it comes from Richard Foster’s book Celebration of Discipline, and it’s this simple posture of surrender where you, um, where you pray with your, your palms down, and it’s you, like, surrendering everything on your heart and mind that’s troubling you.
So it’s palms down, “God, I am giving you all my fear. I’m giving you my anxiety. I’m giving you this situation or this [00:04:00] person or this relationship that is causing me stress right now. I am just laying all this at your feet,” palms down, like giving it to God. And then it’s turning your palms up in a posture of receiving, and, and it’s just saying, “God, would you fill me with your peace, with your strength, with your wisdom?”
And so I think that is a simple practice that I love because you can do that, like, anytime, anywhere. Like, you know, there have been times where I’m in the car, and I’m like, “Oh, I just need to, like, quickly just, like, you know, open my palms and just receive or lay things down.” And so I think what I want to equip people with is, like, just simple, sustainable practices that fit into their lives, as opposed to, like, some big checklist that feels impossible, or maybe you can, you know, you can do it for a little while, but you always fall off the rhythm of it because it’s not sustainable.
And so there’s, that’s one of the practical things. And then the greatest, I think, like, return on investment in terms of, like, investing in your spiritual, your physical, your emotional health, you know, w- as a holistic approach, would be walking. Um, walking really helps [00:05:00] with depression and anxiety. It helps, like, my cortisol.
It’s just kind of regulating my nervous system and bringing that back down. Um, so I love to always encourage people, like, if you h- can do and embrace one, one practice, s- you know … I was, at that time, it’s funny, I was so stressed out, but I was, like, really into, like, HIIT workouts and, like, spin bike, and, like, and I, you take a person whose, whose cortisol’s already through the roof, who’s already stressed out, and then you add, like, HIIT workouts and all these things.
And so I just, yes, I’m just adding all these things that were making my stress and anxiety worse. So, like, I kinda did away with all that, and I was like, “You know what? I’m gonna put that aside for a season, and I’m just going to work on, like, regulating my nervous system, connecting with m- like, my body through walking and through prayer and through those spiritual rhythms.”
Jac: I love that. We share that in common, prayer walks. And it’s so funny too, Monica, because I feel like, I’m still in that stage right now where I feel like I’m trying to, like, again, like, not live in this, like, dysregulated nervous system state and, like, trying to implement, like, more slower practices, [00:06:00] not doing HIIT all the time and what have you.
But it’s hard when you feel like that’s kind of, like, your only outlet, and I think it’s also challenging because it’s like, for me, sometimes I feel like rest is, like, another item to do on my checklist, right? Like, how do you change that mentality as well? And I mean, so much of what I discuss on my podcast is burnout, like, as a physical experience, right?
Like you mentioned, like sleep, hormones, nervous system, overall health. My question for you is, like, how do you distinguish spiritual exhaustion from the kind of exhaustion that, like, might require going to see your doctor, right? Like, with you with your vertigo or, like, talking to a therapist. Like, what distinctly makes it spiritual exhaustion that we could, like, really understand or, like, figure out if that is the root cause?
Monika: I mean, I will say I do believe that, again, like it’s … We’re integrated beings, and so I do think that they kind of work together. So like, and the spiritual exhaustion was feeding into the physical, and mental, and emotional exhaustion. And I think that, that a lot of us, um, [00:07:00] even how it’s all interconnected, like, uh, we sometimes, our, our busyness is actually just a way to distract ourselves from uncomfortable feelings that we don’t wanna process.
And so taking time, like in prayer, to process those things with the Lord, or taking time to see, you know, a pastor or a mentor or a counselor or therapist, like, to, to unpack those things instead of, I think for a lot of us, um, we think that we can just distract ourselves so that we d- we just don’t wanna process our, our grief or our pain or our childhood wounds or any of that.
So I do think that plays into it. But spiritual exhaustion, I think, in particular with Christian women, it’s kind of this idea, um, in the Westminster Shorter Catechism it says that, “Man’s chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.” And I think there’s a lot of Christians who are really good at glorifying God, and we wanna praise Him, we wanna go to church, we wanna read our Bibles, we wanna bring Him glory, we wanna serve, we wanna, you know, do, do all the things, uh, for God.
But we forget that second part entirely, which is that we are actually made to enjoy God, and that there is actually, like, [00:08:00] so much intimacy and delight and joy found in, in being with the Lord and, um, enjoying His presence. And so I would say there’s a spiritual exhaustion that comes when we’re really, um, busy doing a lot of things for God but not actually enjoying time with God
Jac: Yeah, so true. I’m sure you’ve read The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer. That is, like, one of my all-time favorite books, Monica, and he– I love how he has, like, this hurry checklist, right? And among them it’s like when you feel like you can’t be present in a conversation or, like, you can’t wait an extra minute in the grocery line.
And it’s just funny, ’cause as I’m going down these bullets I’m like, “Yes, yes, yes, yes.” And again, it’s just– I was having a conversation with my friend the other day, and I was just saying how, you know, the older you get, life passes so quickly, right? And I feel like we’re constantly in this state of hurry.
And for me, it’s like unless I can actually put something, and I don’t know if you feel the same way, on my calendar, right, like, I won’t remember the months. I’ll have to have, like, one thing that happened in this month, like whether it’s an outing with a friend or just, [00:09:00] like, something to sp- like, something specific to remember.
Otherwise, I feel like time just passes so, so quickly, and it’s scary because I feel like people are saying, “Oh, like, it’s almost, you know, the year’s over, like, halfway through– We’re halfway through 2026.” And I’m like, “Where, where did this year go?” So I think, like, you know, a lot of what you’re saying too to really take time and enjoy also, like, actually helps kind of alter our perception of time in a, in a sense when we’re not in that, like, constant, like, state
Monika: Yes. Oh, absolutely. Have you seen that there’s, like, kind of this movement going around called, like, romanticize your life, and it’s all about,
like, finding, like, the romantic beauty in, like, the everyday mundane things? And I actually really love that practice, ’cause I think, like, so much of our lives is spent in those in between moments.
It’s not really, like, the big sweeping grand gesture moments of our lives, or, like, even, you know, I’m in this exciting season of launching my first book into the world, but that all quickly fades, and so much of your life is actually found in those smaller mundane moments. And so I love the idea of, like, really seeing the [00:10:00] beauty and the joy in those mundane moments, and I think, uh, that really actually starts with gratitude.
Like, if you wanna live awake to your life and not just autopiloting or sleepwalking your way through, I think it really starts with that practice of gratitude for those small kind of mundane moments in your life.
Jac: Yeah, no, I couldn’t agree more. And speaking of the mundane, I mean, there certainly are seasons even in our faith journey, right, where we perhaps don’t feel as close to God as we did in previous seasons. So if someone’s experiencing that season, right, and, like, they’re not super excited about opening their Bible in the morning, or they’re sleeping in and ignoring, like, devotion time, what advice would you give to them if they just feel far from God?
Monika: Hmm. That’s such a good question, and I think it’s really important to first, like, take the shame, uh, like disconnect the shame from that because I think a lot of times, you know, uh, uh, Christians, we, we have these seasons where we feel so close to God. Maybe you’re hearing His voice, or He’s doing something, like, really beautiful in your life or in your story, and He
You’re seeing His faithfulness, and you feel, [00:11:00] like, this intimacy with Him. But then you go through a season of your life where He feels actually quieter, and He feels more distant. And I think a lot of times we can start to spiral and, uh, internalize that as shame and even feeling like, “Oh, God, did I offend you?
Did I upset you? Like, you’re, you’ve withheld your presence from me.” Like, uh, you know, we think God’s punishing us or that God is mad at us. And so I think what we actually need to do is, like, recognize the truth that there are natural, um, C.S. Lewis talks about this, but there’s, like, natural undulations in our faith.
There’s gonna be seasons of your faith where you hear Him more clearly, you feel His presence, um, more profoundly in your everyday life, and there’s gonna be seasons where He feels a little bit further away, and that’s actually a really normal part of the Christian walk that we see evidenced throughout all of church history, like, that is
And so if we can just take the shame and the pressure off that and have the peace that comes from knowing, you know, even if I don’t feel God as, you know, as much in this season as I did in previous seasons, He’s still very much just as with me. He still loves [00:12:00] me. He’s still for me, and He’s still moving and working in ways that I probably can’t even see or fathom.
And so my encouragement to that person is, is to remind yourself of that truth, continue to, to dwell on that truth. And then I love this simple prayer that, that I often pray, which is, “Lord, would you increase my awareness of your presence with me, even here, even now, throughout my day-to-day life?” And I think when we do that, there’s
I don’t know. There’s just these little, um, I call them divine appointments. There’s just these little things that happen throughout your li- or throughout your day, throughout your life that you’re like, “Wow, like, I really, I see God’s hand in this,” and it’s a beautiful thing when that does happen.
Jac: Yeah, I love that. Speaking of hands, Monica, this concept of open hands, right, that you also alluded to before with, like, the whole, you know, prayer and surrender, it’s a beautiful phrase, right? But it’s also a very costly practice, especially when living with open hands, you know, is really just, like, giving God something that we really, really want, that we feel like we can control, but we, like, deep down know we [00:13:00] don’t.
So how does one do that, I guess, like, when surrender requires, again, like, giving something up that you genuinely want to God?
Monika: Ooh, that is a great question. I think it’s so hard. Um, like we just kinda white-knuckle things, and I had this in a season of my life. So when I was, um, when I was a newlywed, my husband and I, we originally met and married, we were high school sweethearts in Orlando, Florida, and then we moved to, um, LA for, for me to really pursue acting, kind of following
I felt Lord calling me to California. But, um, really I was kinda going all in with acting. And I remember I just, like, was obsessed with, with this acting, like this was like the vision and the plan that I had for my life, like I was gonna be an actress, like I was all in, no plan B, like this is what I was doing.
And I remember just like getting to this point where I feel like I really had kinda made an idol out of it, because it was like I just … I would pray, like, for God to, to bless my career as an actress, but I never really, like I didn’t pray beyond that ’cause I was [00:14:00] so afraid of, of if He would ask me to give it up.
And so I think that’s a really good sign that, like, maybe you’re clinging too tightly to something when you feel like a sense of not even wanting to pray about it ’cause you’re afraid that God might ask you to surrender it. And so for me, what that looked like was, um, there was a season where I had actually gotten like a, a pretty severe, like, depression in, um, in the pursuit of that, and I finally felt like I got some distance and space from it, and the Lord did ask me to, to lay it down for a season.
And it was like one of the hardest things that I had done, because it was like not just surrendering, uh, you know, something that I love, but surrendering like a whole version of my life that I thought was gonna play out. And so it is, like there’s no easy, like, tie up, tie it up in a bow, like it was actually really, really hard to lay that down.
But I know that when I did that, I felt like my eyes were opened in a fresh way. Like, I began to see other things, like other creative outlets that the Lord like had, you know, other gifts and talents that He’d given me with photography and with writing and [00:15:00] that I didn’t even know before because I was so, like, laser focused on being an actor.
And so I would say, like, it, this is not a easy thing, but if you can just loosen your grip enough and say, “God, this is …” Like, be honest with Him. Cry out, like, “This is hard. I don’t wanna surrender this to you. Will you help me? Will you give me strength by your Holy Spirit? Help me surrender this and lay this down.”
And then you can just watch as, like, the trust and the intimacy grows, and you begin to probably see things that you couldn’t see before when you were so locked into that thing that you were holding so tightly.
Jac: Yeah, that’s very true. How did you ultimately get out of the acting career? Like, what, what prompted that?
Monika: So I was, uh, we were living in LA at the time, and my husband was a worship pastor in Orange County. And so the first step, it was like God was so gracious. The first step actually wasn’t me leaving the career. It was that, uh, we had felt that we were called to move to Orange County and, uh, be closer to our church community there.
And so we … Like, I did not wanna leave LA. I was a city girl. I loved, like, my hikes and my friends and my … Like, I was set in the city. I did [00:16:00] not wanna move to the suburbs and move to Orange County. Um, but I was like, “Okay, God, I’ll trust you in this.” And so we, we m- did that move, and I was still commuting at the time up to LA for auditions and for, um, and for work.
And, uh, it really was just this slow process of getting that little bit of distance from it I felt like gave me clarity for me to see, like, that maybe this wasn’t actually good for me in a lot of ways. And so that, that little step back softened my heart enough to be able to say, “Okay, God, I’m … ” I, when I did surrender, I didn’t
It wasn’t like, “Oh, I’ll never do this again.” There was actually a part of me that was like, “Well, I’m gonna lay this down for this season, and we’ll see if it ever comes back around. And who knows, m- maybe it still will. I don’t know.” This is like 15 years ago. But I laid it down, and, um, and then my husband and I ended up, uh, shortly after that starting our family.
And so I kind of transitioned from, you know, pursuing this career in acting to then becoming, uh, a stay-at-home mom. And there was for sure a, a long journey. It’s a whole other conversation probably of, [00:17:00] like, just figuring out my identity and who I was apart from this thing that I thought I was supposed to do
Jac: Right? Yeah. Makes, makes complete sense. I mean, I find that any time you take a step back from anything, right, whether it’s, like, a career or relationship, like, you really do get clarity. Um, but on that topic too, you’ve said that you would rather pray, “God, open the right doors,” than try to force them open yourself, and I, I love that, and I try to live by that as well.
My question for you, Monica, is how do you distinguish faithful waiting from being too afraid to act? And this is something I always, I struggle with, and it’s funny, I actually created my very first digital course, Monica, completely unrelated to Well and Strong. It’s called Rooted, um, and it’s essentially a guide for seasons of transition.
Yeah, I’ll have to send it to you. But they say authors write books they need the most, and I’m sure that resonates with you, but this is essen- essentially a course that I myself needed. Um, just again, like, in navigating, like, seasons of uncertainty where, like, you really don’t know what’s [00:18:00] coming next and, like, how to actually stay faithful, like, stay present, and, like, really enjoy, like, the life that you’re living in the moment without, again, like, having to white-knuckle the future because, you know, you felt God let you down in the past or something happened and, you know, you’re not quite sure how to pick up the pieces.
Um, so all that to say, back to my question, yeah, like, how do you distinguish faithful waiting, right, from being, like, just too afraid to act on our own?
Monika: Oh, yes. I think that’s … There is, like, a tension in that, right? I feel like for me, um, it, there’s, uh, trust is cultivated in the waiting, first of all. And so for me, it’s like kind of leaning into that current season. And, um, e- even I think sometimes it’s easy when we’re waiting on something to … Uh, sort of all of our attention is, like, on this thing.
And so for me, it looked like, again, getting that step back and, like, not letting it consume and, like, uh, kind of that endless rumination, which actually leads us into depression. Like, so I would say, like, if you can take a step back enough to, like, kind of cut off that, the endless [00:19:00] rumination on something that you’re praying for.
Um, and then I always say, like, be faithful with what’s right in front of you in that season. And so, like, even now, there’s things that I’m still praying for, things I’m still contending for, but I’m gonna be faithful with the here and now of what God is doing with the people that He’s put in my path, the people that He’s called me to, the work that He’s called me to do, while I still hold that expectation for these things that I’m believing and praying for.
And so I do think there’s a tension in that. Another thing is, um, I think we have to walk with other believers. Like, we are not called to do any of this alone, and I think if you kind of live in isolation or you isolate yourself from other friends and, uh, communities or even a local church, like, it’s, it’s all going to feel so much harder and so much heavier because you weren’t called to carry it alone.
And so I would say surround yourself with people who can speak truth to you, who can love you, who can pray alongside you, who can, you know, hold your arms up when you’re feeling weary and support you, [00:20:00] um, on the journey. So you are not made to do it alone. Definitely, um, seeking wise counsel, seeking, um, community and friendship for that in-between space is so, so crucial.
Jac: Yeah, I love that. Speaking of spirit of truth, Monica, how do you deal with anxiety? And this is a question I always love to ask in conversations like these, ’cause I feel like everyone has a different answer, but, like, it’s hard to, like, move truth from, like, your head to your heart, right? Like, when you know something logically, and you’ve s- t- spoken about this too, but, like, when you know something logically, right, but, like, you just can’t implement it in, like, your daily life because you’re so afraid.
Like, how do you
Monika: Yeah.
Jac: those, feelings?
Monika: So I have wrestled with a lot of anxiety over the years, and so I, like I said, I like to take a holistic approach, so I, I look at it from three different, you know, aspects. I wanna look at it emotionally and kinda unpack, is there any underlying, you know, emotions that I haven’t dealt with, things that I’ve kind of tried to sweep under the rug that I need to bring out of the darkness and into the light.
And so I try to process and unpack that, and [00:21:00] I think prayer is so vital during this phase, too, because there’s certain things that you might be wrestling with that you are kind of subconscious. You’re not kind of always aware of it. One, one of the things is one time in prayer, the Lord revealed to me, like, a root of rejection that I had from something I overheard as a little girl, and it was not something I was consciously aware of, but through prayer, I was able to bring that into the light and receive healing and kind of get to the root of rejection that I had been carrying in my heart.
And so I think emotionally we have to unpack those things. That’s where prayer, that’s where, uh, counseling really come in, that emotional side. Um, and then physically what that looked like for me was kind of getting to the root of some of my physical issues. Um, I had chosen to approach it naturally without prescription medication, but I, I think people can talk to their doctor of what’s right for them.
So physically how I approached it for me was I found out that I had, after getting some blood work, I had, uh, really low cholesterol levels, and cholesterol, um, it’s bad when it gets really elevated and high, but it’s also [00:22:00] harmful if it gets too low. And so, um, I started taking supplements to help, um, and changed my diet to help with my cholesterol to get that kind of evened out, and I, I noticed immediate relief with that.
Um, I also had, you know, other imbalances like high estrogen and just other things going on hormonally that were contributing physically to my anxiety. Um, another physical thing for me is, um, I, especially after the vertigo, really calming my vestibular nerve, and so little practices like humming, um, bearing down, massaging your inner ear, like, things like that can kinda help calm that vestibular nerve to help you physically with your anxiety.
And then addressing the spiritual side, um, is there any … That’s where, you know, praying scripture over your mind, over your heart, meditating on the truth of God’s Word, of who you are in Him and your identity in Christ, keeping your eyes, you know, on Him, keeping your gaze on Him instead of the, the things in the world, you know, that can often cause us so much stress and anxiety.
And so I think all of those when we, when we work [00:23:00] them together, I feel like it, that’s what leads to that true transformation, that true relief that we’re after.
Jac: Yeah, that’s so true. And in terms of just keeping our eyes on God, right, and not on the things of this world, it is increasingly difficult, as you very well know, Monica, what with social media and all of these other, you know … It, it’s so hard to do that when we’re constantly being bombarded with things that are just, like, not good for our mental health, our spiritual health, our emotional health.
So I guess just living in the world today, right, like apart from living under a rock, how do you navigate that? Like, being, like, living in this world, right, but not actually being a part of it?
Monika: Right. I always encourage people to kind of, uh, you know, curate what you’re consuming, and so try to be mindful of what you’re consuming. If, you know, I think a lot of times people hear from, from authors or, you know, like, they just, you know, “Well, just delete your social media, do this or that,” and people are like, “I’m not gonna do that.”
And so then they do nothing because they’re not gonna do these big, drastic measures. And so what I would encourage you with [00:24:00] is, like, being intentional. Like, I’m not gonna tell you to delete it all off your phone. I know that’s not realistic for most people, but, uh, be intentional with it. Um, there’s a simple practice that, um, Justin Whitmel Early talks about in his book Common Rule of scripture before screens.
And so what if you start your day with scripture before you reach for the phone, get sucked into social media or the news or your email, like, or to-do list? You know, start your day kind of in the Word, and it’s not about a certain amount of … You know, it’s not like, “Well, you need to study your Bible for one hour every day.”
Like, it’s, it’s not this kind of like heavy, you know, ill-fitting sort of thing. It’s, it’s really just w- what does this look like? It could be as, as simple and sustainable as you can make it, but scripture before screens.
Um, and then yeah, it- it’s just such a simple practice that’s easy to remember. It’s something I’ve taught even my older children that they can practice as well, and so it’s
I love something that’s really simple that you can hold onto like that. And like I said, just curating your, your feed, your media consumption. Um, when I was struggling with anxiety, [00:25:00] I realized, like, I could no longer watch thrillers. I could not … Like, if you’re struggling with anxiety or fear about the future, like, maybe don’t watch 60 Minutes or watch, like, all these
You know, this horrible case that’s, I won’t even say the name, but the case that’s, uh, you know, going viral right now. I just, I stay away from all that because my heart is very tender. I’m very empathetic, and I cannot, I cannot watch the trials. I cannot see what’s going on in the news. And so be okay and honest with yourself that, like, maybe you, you don’t need to know everything, uh, that’s happening in the world at every moment and that you probably can’t handle holding all that.
Jac: Yeah. I love that. You would like this too. I always use this, this phrase that I create more than I consume. Um, and it’s so funny, Monica, because I have not touched my personal social media accounts I think in, like, six years. But the nature of Well and Strong, it’s like that’s my business, right? So, like, I kinda have to be on social, but it’s funny because it’s so different in the sense of, like, I literally just follow, like, health and wellness people, and I create, right?
Like, [00:26:00] I, I rarely consume, so it’s, it’s how you use it, right? And whether, like, someone has a business page or a personal page, like, same concept, and I love the concept of, like, you know, curating your feed too, ’cause that’s
Monika: Yeah. Yes, like I always say, if you could have, I love what you said, like create more than you consume. I always say, like, if your feed can feed you. And so I try to
follow things that are life-giving. So, like, I’ll totally follow a health and wellness person. Like, I wanna hear about that. I, and I just try to f- fill my…
You know, the Bible says to focus on what is good and true and beautiful, and so I try to fill my mind with that because what you put in is gonna come out. And so when I was feeding my mind with, like, thrillers and, like, you know, death and these things,
like, i- for, for the name of enter- you know, for the sake of entertainment, it was like that was coming out with the anxiety and fear.
And
so, yeah
Jac: I know. The older I go- like, the older I get, I’ve become, again, much more conscious of what I watch. So like, not that I was, like, a huge horror movie enthusiast, but, like, I do not watch scary movies at all for
multiple reasons. ‘Cause, like, [00:27:00] everything you see and hear, like, it really does stay in your subconscious, and you don’t realize the effect it has on you sometimes, and I think that’s, like, perhaps the scariest part of it
Monika: Yes. Oh my gosh, I could go on a whole rant about that. I, I’ve had like… There’s been times, there was this movie that I saw as a… So I don’t watch horror movies at all now, but when I was in high school and before I was sanctified saint that I am today, I did watch horror movies with my high school friends.
And literally some of these images, like, will
just pop, like I, I will be like trying to fall asleep at night and not thinking about it at all, and all of a sudden, like this horror thing will flash in my mind, and I’m like, “Get away from me,
Jac: I know. Literally, I understand. Um, one other question too for you, Monica. Sorry to, to go back, but I am curious. You mentioned, like, just, again, like, like reading your Bible in the morning, right? And, like, having that routine before screens. What does that actually look like for you?
Like, do you like to do Bible studies? Like, will you just randomly open your Bible in the morning? Do you read through it chronologically? Like, I mean, I know it differs, like, by each person, but, like, if someone wants to really [00:28:00] get into a solid routine, right, where they’re like,
Monika: Mhm.
Jac: read in the morning, like, what do you recommend that they, I guess, start with?
Monika: Yeah. Well, my philosophy right now is, is really simple. So one of the things I do is I start every day with the Lord’s Prayer. And so because I know, you know, physically that looking at sunlight in the morning helps with your circadian rhythms, I always, like, step out my front door, and I look towards the sun, and I recite the Lord’s Prayer, and I take some deep breaths.
And so that is, like, such a simple practice that I do literally every morning. Sometimes my, my kids will walk up with me, and they’ll stand at my side, and they’ll look at the sun, and they’ll, we’ll say the Lord’s Prayer together.
And it’s, it’s so precious. And then I also, um, I currently am reading a Charles Spurgeon devotional, uh, morning and evening, and so
I do Yeah, I love the classics. I love Spurgeon, love C.S. Lewis,
um, A.W. Tozer. So,
Jac: Yeah, I have a Charles Stanley, uh, divisional right now that I’m reading through. I love Chuck Swindoll. Yeah, I’m [00:29:00] like, I’m such a nerd with all of it. Like,
Monika: Yay.
Jac: I do at night. I just listen to sermons, like, all the
Monika: Ah, I love it. That’s how I am too. That’s so good. Um, so I do that, and then in terms of Bible study, one thing that I like to do is I like to study what we’re, um, what we’re reading through as a church body.
So I’m a big local church girl. So, like, right now my church just started, uh, a new series on Nehemiah, Ezra/Nehemiah, and so that’s what I’m reading through at home so that I can make sure to really, like, suck the marrow out of the teaching. And so I would say that’s a really simple way, if you’re not sure where to start, is in your, in your church, what are you guys going through as a church body, and, and try to unpack that and dive deeper at home.
You’ll get so much more out of the series if you do that. Um, and if you’re very new to scripture, I always say s- uh, I always say, you know, start with the Gospel. Start with John. Um, go through the Gospels, and then I love, you know, the, the Pauline epistles, and
go through all that. So, and then maybe go back to the Old Testament.
Jac: I love [00:30:00] that. And just like, like, I mean, again, you have four children. I’m sure they take up a lot of your time. So I would love your take too on people, you know, who also have, like, very, very busy schedules who feel like they can’t get even, like, five minutes by themselves in the morning.
Like, what are some, I guess, like, tactical strategies that someone could implement to, like, make sure they do have that morning quiet time with God? Is it, like, I don’t know, like, do you like habit stacking? And like, what are,
Monika: Oh, yes.
Jac: that Monica could recommend for
those who are like, “I have no time”?
Monika: Yes, I am a big… I feel like we must like the same books. I’m a big
fan
stacking. James, James Clear, like, yes, I’m all about it. So, um, for me, it’s like I have trained my brain that, like, I have coffee and I read my Bible. Like, that is like, so I pour the coffee, and
it’s like my brain is, I’m now ready to get into the Word.
It’s like I have conditioned m- I have conditioned myself for this, and so it’s kinda made it easier, like with the habit stacking, to know, like, okay, that’s what I do first thing every single day. Like, before I grab my phone, before I do anything else, like, that is what I [00:31:00] do. Um, but the other thing I would say is, like, you have to be really honest with your season and with your capacity, because there were seasons of my life where I was not doing that, and I don’t think shame is your friend here.
Like, I think we, we can get, kinda spiral into shame and self-hatred when we hear, “Oh, this mom gets up and she reads Spurgeon, and she has her coffee,” and I’m just, like, in survival mode, barely making it through the day. And I would just say, like, it’s okay. Like, there is so much grace with where you’re at.
Like, God is gonna meet you right where you’re at, and so maybe you’re s- my kids are a little bit older now, and so
Jac: How old’s your oldest?
Monika: so my oldest is 12, and then I have a 10-year-old, a seven-year-old, and a six-year-old. And so, you know, this is, like, the first season where my kids are in school. They all are in school now, and so I have, I have time now after I get them out the door where I can do a deeper, you know, longer Bible study in the morning, and I can dig into some, some books and have more time for that.
But there were seasons where it was like I could have time to do the Lord’s Prayer, and then [00:32:00] just, like, throughout the day, just, you know, crying out to God, like, “Lord, help me. Lord, strengthen me.” I began to praise, you know, praise scripture, have a f- there was verses that became like a lifeline when my kids were little, like Colossians 1:11.
You know, I’d pray, “Lord, strengthen me with all power according to your glorious might that I might have great endurance and patience.” And, like, things like that just become a lifeline. Like, put it on a sticky note, put it on your mirror, put it on, you know, in your car or on your fridge, like just simple verses that you can pray over your, your heart and mind throughout the day.
And so I would just tell people, like, don’t compare, but figure out what are the simple, sustainable rhythms that work for you and your family and your unique situation and circumstances.
Jac: Yeah. Speaking of comparison, Monica, I’m, like, watching the clock because I don’t wanna
get too far into this, ’cause this could
be a
whole episode in itself. But for someone who, um, is in a season of grief, right? Like, something, like, very traumatic happened, and they just feel very far from God. They feel like they can’t trust God.
What advice would you give that [00:33:00] person? And this is someone who, like, again, has, like, loved God their, their whole life, right? But, like, something
really horrible happened, and just, like, they’re struggling to rebuild that relationship
Monika: Mm-hmm. I would just say, like, first of all, just know that you’re not alone, that, you know, we all walk through heavy and hard things, and I think when we do, it’s really easy for this lie of, like, “I’m the only one who feels this. I’m the only one who has struggled with this.” So I will always encourage people to know that you’re not alone and that God is with you in it.
Like, we are not promised, you know, that everything in our lives will be wonderful and beautiful and rainbows and sunshine every day, but we are promised that in the hard things that we face, that God is with us in them. And so I would say that also healing is not linear. Like, healing comes and it ebbs and flows, and it goes up and down, and, and so I think it’s okay if your, your healing right now is all you can do is lament and just cry out to God in your suffering.
Like, that is perfectly okay. And so [00:34:00] try not to judge the process, and try to just continue to invite God to meet you. I think we have to remember that we can bring all those messy, like, tangled emotions before the Lord, and He’s gonna help us. Like, we can sort it out together with Him. We don’t have to try to wait till we can clean ourselves up, polish ourselves, and make it sound pretty to bring it before the Lord, but you can actually come, like, right there in the midst of your brokenness and your suffering and your pain, and you can, you can cry out to Him, “Abba, Father”, and, and He’ll meet you in it.
Jac: Yeah. And on the topic too, Monica, of comparison, right? How have you personally, and I’m sure, like, you’ve dealt with this as, you know, an aspiring actress at one point in your life, but how do you silence, like, that voice, right, that always tempts you to look at someone else and say, oh, like, they have it, or this person has what I want, and to, I guess, like, really miss out on what God has done for you, right, and has given, like, Monica at this point in her
Monika: Yeah, Yeah, [00:35:00] I think it’s, it comes back to what scripture talks about, about taking every thought captive, and I think those thoughts, like, it’s everyone faces them at, at some point or another. So w- if that thought arises, uh, I think calling it out, I think, i- is so helpful. So I’ll just call it out like, “Oh, I’m, I’m in comparison right now,” or even envy.
Like, you know, gosh, there’s been seasons of my life, like this is so vulnerable, but you know, we’re a ministry family, and money has s- s- we’ve been through seasons where we’ve had financial hardship and money has been tight, and I felt like we got in this season where it was like everyone around us, like all of our friends were really wealthy, and like they were not in ministry, and they’re going on these beautiful vacations, and they’re buying their dream homes, and like they have 401Ks, and like I’m just like over here like, you know, living paycheck to paycheck.
And so I think sometimes that, like envy can creep in, but it, if it does, it’s just like call it out. And so I’ll even … Like confession is huge. I will literally pray like, “God, I confess to you that I’m feeling envious of their financial [00:36:00] situation, and God, would you just help me to see like that you have provided, uh, more, like abundantly more than I can ask or imagine already, and help me to just be so grateful in my current season and circumstances and not feel envious of theirs?”
And so we can call it out, like confess it, repent it. Um, don’t ignore it, um, because I think when we try to ignore it or just say, “Oh, don’t think that, like ugh,” we just, it like festers and it gives, you know, the enemy a foothold in our lives. But I think if you can confess it, and even for me, sometimes that confession is to, uh, you know, just to the Lord in prayer, but sometimes I’ll, I’ll call a friend and I will just say it out loud.
And then when you say it out loud, it, it does this beautiful thing, like when you confess it to another human, where it disarms it. It’s like it loses its power
because when you hear it out loud, you feel, you just like, you’re like, “Wow, that’s so silly. Why did I even think that?” So
Jac: Yeah, it’s just another, like, perspective. No, that’s so true. And one thing else, too, like my sister and I were talking about this the other week, is that, like, we were like, “Wouldn’t it be, like, not cool,” cool’s [00:37:00] not the word, but just, like, enlightening if we all had, like, these imaginary signs over our head of, like, what we were actually going through, right?
Like, you’ll pass someone on the street, and like, you’ll just assume something, but then, like, you’ll learn something later on, and it’s like, wow, like, I had no clue, like, that person just experienced that. And I think that would also, like, help break this, like, the envy barrier, right? And also, like, lend to more empathy.
But, like, sadly, like, we don’t have that, right? So, like, it’s just reminding yourself that everyone is going through something that you have no clue. Like, you don’t, you don’t see it, right? And, like, no one’s life is truly perfect. Um,
and again, social media doesn’t necessarily lend to that, uh,
Monika: Yes. Yes. And when, and when you confess it, you also, you know, there’s a vulnerability in it that maybe these, you know, I can confess that and people will be like, “Wow, y- I didn’t know. I had no idea you struggled with that too.” And then it helps people feel less alone and feel like they can i-
you know, confess their stuff too, their j- their junk too.
So Yeah, I think it’s a, a beautiful thing
Jac: So true. [00:38:00] Monica, we like kind of spoke about your book, but we kind of didn’t. Um, but I did that intentionally because I did wanna ask you those questions, but I also want people to go pick up a copy of it ’cause it’s truly such a wonderful book. Um, but with that, where can they do that?
And also, where can they follow you? I know you said you were active on social before
Monika: Yes. So you can grab a copy of Ever With You if you search Ever With You by Monica, that’s Monica with a K, Kirkland. It’s on Amazon. Um, and if you visit my website monikakirklind.com, you can also find more links on there. I hang out a lot on Instagram, @monikakirklind, as well as my podcast, Inner Revival
Jac: I know. I saw that you had a podcast, and it’s actually next on my listen list, so I’m
really to check that out. But I’ll include the links to all of those in the show notes. My last question for you, Monica, and this is always my favorite one to ask, and that is, what does being well and strong mean to you?
Monika: Ugh. I think it’s, uh, you know, just to put an end cap to, to everything we kinda talked about is that spiritual, emotional, like physical, like that wellbeing, just feeling, [00:39:00] um, a sense of God’s presence with me and within me, and knowing that even when things aren’t always, you know, going as well as I might like, or I’m in a hard season, or I’m struggling, I know that, that God is with me and within me.
And so I think ultimately, like He is the one who strengthens and sustains me. And so I think like being truly well and strong I think comes when you live from that place and live in, in Holy Spirit dependence on, on God
Jac: Amen. I love that. Monica, we’ll have to have another episode just on book discussions, ’cause I feel like what’s currently sitting on my bookshelf right now, you probably have read like 99%
of all
of them.
Monika: I love it. I feel like we’re definitely kindred spirits, so it’s been so fun getting to chat with
you
Jac: are. Thank you for your time, and yeah, I’m excited to share this. I’ll let you know when it goes live.
