I am beyond excited to kick off the first episode of this new year with someone I recently connected with, but whom I already consider a good friend. Her name is Heidi Lee Anderson. If you’ve ever struggled with anxiety about the future, this episode is for you.
So many questions constantly circulate in our minds, and, despite our best intentions and honest efforts, fear seems to be winning. We know the Bible repeats, “Do not fear,” but how do we do that? What do we do after we’ve cast our cares on the Lord, memorized Scripture, pumped worship music through every speaker, and yet still feel stuck?
At age 23, Heidi was thrown the biggest curveball of her life when she was diagnosed with cancer. Yet, while struggling to be hopeful amid uncertainty, God showed up for her, as she witnessed 3 jaw-dropping miracles. Heidi is now a speaker, author, podcaster, cancer survivor, mother, and my favorite – a “professional laugher.” I’m so excited to share our conversation with you, as Heidi shows us how to live the abundant life God intends for us.
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*Unedited Transcript*
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Jacqueline: [00:00:00] I’m excited to just like see you after, what, friends on social for like the months?
Heidi: Well, I am so honored. Thanks for inviting me to do this. This is gonna be fun.
Speaker: That’s great. That’s great. Well, it’s good to see you and actually meet you in real life, like
Speaker 6: I know, Heidi. I know. I, I mean, just to kick things off, I, uh, I first came across your account. You were in like my explore page and I saw one of the illustrations that you created and I just like, click, I clicked your account. I was literally like going through your entire feed. I was like, this woman is incredible.
I’m obsessed with everything she does. And the funny thing is that I’ve started Heidi to expand more into like. The faith wellness space, as I’m sure you’ve kind of, you know, gathered from, from looking at my Instagram. But, um, I mean, Well and Strong started just for your context, um, in 2020, my mom was diagnosed with stage four breast cancer, uh, in 2018 after being in [00:01:00] remission for like nine or 10 years.
Um, so it really started off as a means for me to just like share the research I was doing for her from like an integrative medicine standpoint. Right. Um, And it’s been a journey, you know, the past six years, um, you know, God has been good, but it’s, it’s been a lot. Um, but I, I’ve realized this past year, you know, especially just through journeying with her through, through different treatments that at the end of the day, it’s like, no matter what treatment options, like we pursue, God is in control of the outcome and God is sovereign.
And that Heidi, like really just changed my whole perspective on health and wellness. So I’m not like, stopping creating content on, like, physical health and wellness. I’m still a believer in integrative medicine, but there is just so much power in the name of Jesus and what the Bible says about healing and, you know, God’s sovereignty that, like,
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: this is what I need to hear and what I’ve, like, discovered this year.
So I’m trying to use [00:02:00] Well and Strong basically as a platform to just share that and the timing of just Like, finding your account and hearing your story and, like, the things that you post right away. I was like, this woman needs to come on my podcast because she is absolutely incredible.
Speaker: Well, it’s funny you say that. I was just talking to my husband about how, um, the things we often share and like the content we produce, right? It’s mainly because we needed ourselves, you know, like, We’re, we’re searching ourselves. We need the reassurance. There’s like certain truth where we’re asking the Lord, like what, what is going on here and I need help and I need your guidance.
And it’s like, this is what he shared us. Right. And just out of the overflow, we want to turn around and show that. Cause sometimes people are like, Oh, you must have like, So much faith, always talk about faith over fear or
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker: over doubt or faith over discouragement. I’m like, girlfriend, I talk about that.
Cause I like have to preach the truth to myself every day, day in and day out. [00:03:00] Otherwise, you know, that stuff wins, but you’re right. God is sovereign and he’s good. And we just, we got to tell people about it. Right. Cause of the world is really filled with bad news, but we know the good news. So, Oh
Speaker 6: a hundred percent. Yeah. It’s so funny. I had a, an episode last week. I spoke with this pastor from a church in Red Rocks and we’re just covering every single topic under the sun, Heidi. Like we spoke on singleness and I was like, I prefaced the episode. I was like, Ryan, this is going to be a therapy session for me.
Just so you know. That’s I love podcasting so much too. I started this about a year and a half ago, but A, I mean, it’s an opportunity to just connect with incredible people like yourself who like. You know, you just, you want to meet and you want to talk to, and you could use your, your podcast as an excuse to be like, Hey, do you want to have a fun conversation with me?
That’s gonna just, you know, happen to be recorded. Um, and yeah, I mean, we, you know, I think it’s really important to kind of like, at least for me, I’m, I’m trying to be the person that I needed. When I was younger, right, or years ago. And just [00:04:00] like you said, like you, you preach what you need to hear. So everything that I cover and everything that I continue to cover, it’s just, there are things that I struggle with.
And I’m like, if I’m struggling with this, then there’s a lot, lot of other people that are too. Um,
Speaker: But before we dive in, I want to hear, how is your mom? So what’s the reason?
Speaker 6: yeah, so she’s been dealing Heidi. She had, um, so in 2018 we found out she had two metastases to her spinal column. So both are radiated. She’s been on like aromatase inhibitors the past several years. She’s been on, you know, targeted therapies. Um, right now she’s dealing with some liver meds. Um, so that’s kind of been like the latest thing over the past two years.
She’s been dealing with that. Um, she’s been on a few different medications. She has a PET scan coming up. Um, we just, she has some decisions to make with regards to like next treatment options that we’re just praying about, but she’s
Speaker: there’s a lot of options,
Speaker 6: Heidi. It’s so overwhelming, Heidi. Yeah, it’s just, it’s a lot. I mean, this is a whole other story, but we went to a clinic back in April for like four or five [00:05:00] weeks outside the country just to do like a bunch of different like alternative therapies.
And we’re, we’re really trying everything, but it’s just, it’s a lot. It’s a lot. Cause you’re always like questioning, like, you know, should I, should I do this? Should I do that? But like back to what I was telling you, like, I’ve realized that it’s not so much about like the decisions we make as much as it is about trusting God with the outcome.
Right. Cause like if we’re abiding in him and you have two great choices, you know, this from your experience and I want to get into that too, but it’s like, if there are two equally just as good paths, like they both honor God, you, you can’t go wrong because like, you can’t mess up the plan that he has.
For your life, like we’re not that powerful and it’s just like realizing like the control like it’s not on us You know, it’s like
Speaker: right. For sure. Yeah, I hear you. Well, I’m glad to hear though that she is sounds like she still loves the Lord is full
Speaker 6: does. Yeah, you have to meet her one day
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, I would love it.
Speaker 6: she loves you. She loves your account She’s so cute. She created an Instagram for the first time [00:06:00] like
Speaker 2: Oh, cutie.
Speaker 6: like she’s like I want to create an Instagram to like encourage people and it’s called soul encourager her handle and she found you Too and she’s like I really love
Speaker 9: this woman like what she posts You I was like, Mom, that’s my friend Heidi, like I’m having her on my podcast in
Speaker 2: my word. No, she sounds like a deer.
Speaker 6: I know. You’ll meet her at some point. But, um, yeah. But anyway, Heidi, so I know a little bit about your story, obviously just from following you and, um, from what I’ve read, you have an incredible podcast that I would love for you to share with listeners too, but for folks who don’t know you, what is your story and how did you find yourself?
Basically doing what you’re doing now.
Speaker: Yeah. You know, okay. How do I make that long story somewhat short? Right. Um, but I really started back. Um, when I was 23, I was so Um, really just working at a church day in, day out, clocking in, clocking out, just looking for the next great thing. Instead, I felt a lump on my neck that turned out to be not so [00:07:00] great.
And, um, I remember going to the doctor and after so many days of waiting, so many days of tests, They confirmed that I did have stage two cancer. I just always remember sitting on that white crinkly paper and looking over at the doctor who says you have Hodgkin’s lymphoma. Um, but I do remember looking at my mom who came with me.
I was like, what even is that? Because without any family history of cancer, or really any disease whatsoever, I mean, those titles just went over my head. Um, but then they said, that’s cancer in your lymph nodes. And they confirmed I had stage two. Like I said, that I would need about Six months of chemo and six weeks of radiation.
And honestly, that was the first curve ball, really, that’s been thrown my way for most of my life. I grew up in a Christian home that loved the Lord. Um, my whole extended family on both sides, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, all love the Lord. And it’s been, it was a really easy life when I [00:08:00] looked back on it, you know, there were things that came and I thought it was the end of the world.
It’s like, Oh, it was just a hard test. You know in algebra or oh my boyfriend broke up with me, but he actually wasn’t great So it was okay, you know, but this was the first curveball where I thought Man, I don’t see how this could ever be turned for my good and god’s glory like romans 8 28 I really had to dive deep in that season in his word.
I really had to seek the Lord day in and day out. And that really is what jumpstarted, um, where I’m at today because the Lord showed up in powerful, really miraculous ways to the point where When I go through things today that are really hard, that’s the season I actually look back to, to fuel my faith.
Like, man, if he showed up then, if he redeemed it, then if he shone through with his goodness, then, then surely he’s going to do it again today. And so. I just picture honestly, especially on social media, I picture, I know there is a [00:09:00] woman today that’s been told bad news and I don’t know if that’s bad news of cancer or maybe an unforeseen bill they weren’t expecting or something with their marriage, maybe a divorce or some other health concern, whatever it may be.
I know that there is someone that’s been told bad news today and they’re struggling to find the hope. They’re struggling to find God. And so that’s really my heart. That’s the woman. I, I think. Think of when I post, if she sees this today, if, if I just pray the Holy Spirit reaches her in a way that only God can, and that he reinfuses her soul with the hope that it says in Romans, right?
That he overflows us with hope. And so as Christ followers, we can know that even when things are really bad.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Amen. I got the chills when you were talking. Heidi, what were, what were some of those miracles that you mentioned in
Speaker 2: I.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, no, I’m glad you asked because I have three. There were three obvious. I mean, I’m talking jaw dropping miracles. And I grew up as a pretty [00:10:00] conservative Baptist where like talk of a supernatural things. Um, spiritual warfare was not like what we did, you know, so even talk about that. Um, I just with that background, I, I’m, you know, I don’t just go around saying, yep, that’s a miracle.
Yep. That was what it is. But honestly, and I should clarify, I mean, obviously God shows up every day and there are miracles he’s doing. So I’m not downplaying that. I just mean like, I was a person where I previously did not know the power of prayer. I previously did not know that God showed up in the supernatural until this experience.
And now it’s changed my whole outlook and my life. Yeah. Since then, and God wanted, I think, to show me that he’s still up to something. He’s still working in this, in this world and I can have faith that he will move again. So anyways, my perspective has changed from growing up. But, um, the first thing was my doctor told me at the very beginning, he said, chemotherapy attacks [00:11:00] ovaries.
And so he said, you probably won’t be above kids. best to come to terms with that reality. He sent me to, um, an egg bank to, to look into that. And after looking into that, that wasn’t a feasible option financially where I was at. So I really had to trust the Lord with that. Um, but I mean, fast forward today and I have four kids and
Speaker 8: It’s incredible.
Speaker: Jacqueline, I just look back on that.
And I just think when the doctor told me like, you probably won’t be able to have kids.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker: God didn’t overhear that conversation, right? And say, Oh no, what, what am I going to do with Oscar now? Or, Oh no, like Dottie was in the works. I had Hazel plan, but that doctor said they probably won’t come. So like, what am I going to do now?
No, God wasn’t wringing his hands. He wasn’t stressed. His plans can’t be thwarted. And so, I mean, I think of that when I get bad news today. Sometimes my husband, he’ll be, he’s like really good. He has, I say he has faith like only Bible heroes do. I have to like [00:12:00] work at it. And for him, it’s just like a natural thing.
Right. And so he really challenges me when I, when the doctor tells me something or, you know, I’m told bad news of some different variety, and he really challenges me, like, are you giving them the final word, or are you giving God the final word? And honestly, that is, that’s a challenge. I, yeah, I
Speaker 6: note on that. My aunt Marianne, who I love, she was like one of the first people I had on my podcast. She’s just like my spiritual, like mentor and just like life mentor. She’s incredible, but she always tells me, um, you know, especially with everything my mom’s been going through, she’s like, you have to Like, and you know this, differentiate between fact and fiction, or no, between fact and truth.
And she’s like, fact is like what the doctor report says, right? Or like what tumor markers are and what blood work shows. She’s like, truth is what Jesus says, and Jesus says you are healed. So like anytime I’m reading some type of medical report or like, you know, listening to a doctor, I always keep that in the back of my mind.
It’s like, okay, this might be a [00:13:00] fact, but it’s not truth. And it’s just changed my whole perspective on. on everything.
Speaker: love that. I love that. And one thing that my husband says that’s very similar to that is, like, I, I’ve, Sometimes we’ll think of the what ifs, right? I’ll go down those bunny trails of worst case scenarios. And he’s often like, who, whose voice are you listening to? Like, who told you those things? And I have a, a canvas hanging up on my wall.
That’s that, um, Philippians verse. Like you, we can think on what is true that that’s what God tells us to. We don’t have to think of what if. But what is and what his word says is true. And so, man, I love that. You said that fact and faith. I’ve never thought of it like that before. That’s very neat.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I love it. So that was one miracle, your beautiful children. What was, what’s the second?
Speaker: Okay. So the second was they told me I would need to go through six months of chemo and about six weeks of radiation. And so I started the first. Round of chemo and you know, the doctor tracks your progress after every [00:14:00] round of treatment. Right. And he soon found out after the first and after the second, that my body was responding well and not just like my body was responding on track as they planned, but like plans needed to change it.
My body was responding so well, and so they actually cut my treatment of chemotherapy in half. And so instead of six, um. six months. I only had to go through three months and man, you just don’t hear of that often, right? You don’t hear of chemo being cut in half, but honestly, Jacqueline, the crazy thing was at the time I was writing a blog, it wasn’t a caring bridge, but it was called dear Mr.
Hodgkins. And it was like a letter to Mr. Hodgkins or my cancer. And then, uh, Um, I would write mainly about Bible verses I was reading or worship songs I was dwelling on and basically telling Cancer like this is what you’re doing to me, but this is what God’s word tells me. Um, and as I was doing that, I [00:15:00] realized it was being shared.
I didn’t have a personal Instagram at the time, but I had Facebook. And so that’s what I was sharing it on. And I soon found out it was being shared and read by hundreds and thousands of people, not only just around me, but around the whole world, where I realized there were talks of like a small group in South Dakota.
Someone’s like, pray for Heidi. And another one’s like, I grew up. With Heidi and there was just the church body really rose up all around the world to pray for me. One of my favorite stories I found out is there was a nursing home where someone printed off my blog post and all the ladies would line up and go in a circle in their wheelchairs
Speaker 7: my gosh.
Speaker: and they would just hear my story
Speaker 7: so sweet.
Speaker: It was, I mean, honestly, it was such a gift. And like I, like I said earlier. I mean, I knew the, the power of prayer talking to God, but I previously at the point had only known prayer as like, this is a way to build my relationship with God, to talk with him, but I did not know the power of prayer before this.
And so when I saw all these [00:16:00] people around the world are actually saying, Selflessly praying for me What an honor that was and I thought man, I didn’t know that we as the body we need to be linking arms So when people raise their hand and they’re like pray for me, it’s not just like a okay Yeah, and then you forget about it later power, right?
Speaker 6: praying for you. Yeah, when someone, when someone says that, like, they are praying for me or they’re praying for my mom, like, I don’t take that lightly, like, that’s, like, one of the most special things someone could say to you because it shows, like, they care about you, like, they’re talking to God about you, and it’s, like, it’s powerful.
It’s really, really powerful. That’s so sweet. I love that.
Speaker: know. And we’re reassured, right? And James, that the prayer of a righteous person says it’s powerful and effective. James talks about how Elijah was just like us. He’s a normal human being, but when he prayed for no rain to fall, no rain fell for years, and so we still have that. God wants to [00:17:00] do that through us.
And I didn’t realize that before. And so people prayed for me and I, my chemotherapy treatment was cut in half and I was able to dive into, um, cancer or I’m sorry, radiation. That was, so that was, that was the second miracle. That was just amazing. Um, and then the third miracle, Third is this is my favorite of all is that, um, like I said, I was single at the time.
And so I, here I was 23 and my hair was falling out in clumps. I ended up having a head shaving party. And so I was bald. I was wearing a wig. I’m going through chemo and man, all I wanted like was to be married, right? Even when I was in college, I wanted to be married years ago. I didn’t want to graduate with a marketing degree.
I wanted to graduate. Mrs. degree.
Speaker 9: Someone told me that this week. I like never heard of that. I
Speaker 6: was like, the MRS degree is like, what are you talking about? But then like, now that I live in South Carolina, I’m like, oh, I understand. It’s a thing.[00:18:00]
Speaker: it’s a thing and it’s a thing in Minnesota. So I’m like, that’s all I wanted an MRS degree. All I wanted was to be married, but I thought, man, who’s going to want to date someone now going through cancer chemotherapy? Like who wants to date someone that’s bald and has a port lodged in her chest with who knows how things are going.
Right. Um, but so this was my first round of treatment. My hair was just starting to fall apart, fall out at this point. And my pastor at the time, he asked, would you mind sharing your story during communion this weekend? And to be honest, I did not really want to, I almost bought into the lie that I wasn’t in a good place to share the good news.
And I think sometimes we can feel that way, right? Like better wait until I actually get that happy ending worth telling. And then I’ll tell people about how God answered my prayer or how he was good or whatever that may be. But I was really convicted. Okay. We’re not called to. do that. We’re called to share the good news [00:19:00] literally with when we get any invitation, any open door.
And so I was convicted of that. I’m grateful that I actually did it because the very weekend that I just so happened to share my story, the very weekend I just so happened to be on stage and I just so happened to have the microphone is the very weekend that my now husband just so happened to be visiting
Speaker 9: No, no way.
Speaker: I know, isn’t that insane? But I think of, like, Psalm 31, honestly, where it says God holds all of our times in his hands. It doesn’t say some of our times. It says all of our times. And so I’m being a little facetious what I’m saying just so happened because it is no coincidence, right? There is no coincidence with a God who holds all of our times in his hands.
And so.
Speaker 8: Yeah,
Speaker: Um, what I love is my husband at the time, he went to a church up north. He didn’t go, he didn’t live in my area, but he was hanging out with some friends and they said, let’s just go to church first and then we’ll grab dinner later.
Speaker 9: that’s
Speaker: so, [00:20:00] yeah. And so I shared my story and again, I didn’t know how things were looking at the time, but I shared how Jesus told me and reassured in John, 16, that in this world, I will have trouble, but I can take heart because he has already overcome.
And so I don’t know how this is going to go. I don’t know how this looks, but I do know that Jesus has already overcome it and has called me an overcomer too. And so Ty, he ended up, we didn’t talk that night, but he ended up going out to dinner with his friends afterwards. And he said, though, he will always remember, he looked around at the table and they were just all how sad, like 23.
Already facing cancer. That is so, such a sad story, right? Such, such a sob story. And he looked around, he was like, wait a second. If this is how everyone is responding to her, let alone if this is how the church is responding to her, then I need to reach out. And so he did that night. He sent me a very simple Facebook message.
It just said, Hi, Heidi, I heard your [00:21:00] story and I just want you to know I’m praying for you and God wants you well. And that is the, the third miracle out of all of this is because what I love is God could have sent my husband now in my 36 years of life at any point, right? But he chose the short six month stint when I desperately wanted hope for a future.
And that is a miracle. And I asked
Speaker 6: special.
Speaker: I say, isn’t that weird? Like later on, I said, was that where you went out of your first date with someone? And we, it was my first weekend of radiation. So I was wearing my wig and I was going into that just during my lunch break, you know? And he looked at me like, Oh, and he said, no, I actually didn’t even think twice about it.
He’s like, I knew you were going to be okay. Which again, is totally like him. Like I say, he’s like only Bible heroes too. And I’m like, wow. Cause I would have thought that was weird. You know? But I’m glad he didn’t think it was weird because now we just celebrated our 11th anniversary and kids and [00:22:00] yeah, I’m just I’m I’m grateful and the plan that I had for my life was very different right but God Is was weaving the story all along and now it’s like I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I’m so grateful for Ty He’s like the best Perfect puzzle piece for me. My kids are just such gifts, walking miracles, literally. And man, it’s just, it’s, it’s a good, it’s a good thing where he’s brought me to a point where I can see, okay, if he has done all of that now, he’s still not done, right? He’s still doing something ahead and I can trust him with it, but why do sometimes I still freak out, right?
And sometimes it’s a battle to keep trusting. That’s why I do love the Psalms where it’s like, remember the deeds. We got to look back on what God has done and that’ll fuel our faith as we move forward in the
Speaker 6: love that. Heidi, that’s like one of my favorite stories that I’ve heard all year. Um, that’s, that’s absolutely incredible. I’m wow. I’m just like in awe. And yeah, I mean, so many, so many things going through my mind. I think my first one is I love [00:23:00] that like God knows how we’re feeling at every single moment in the day.
He knows what seasons of life we’re going through and it’s so beautiful when he just like shows up right in, in small things just as a reminder to be like, Hey, I’m still here. You know, like he, he understands like what we’re going through. And. You said trust a couple times. Trust is actually my word for the year.
Do you do this practice? It’s like, I, I started doing it like literally last year. Yeah. 2023. You pick a, pick a word for the year and that’s your, your word. And I was praying about my word for this year around this time last year. And just like trust kept coming to my, to my mind. And honestly, like. Out of, you know, all 29 years of my life, this has been the year where I really needed to exercise that word the most.
Um, with a bunch of different things that, you know, we, we did this year and it’s so beautiful because I can look back and say, wow, like God did show up and God did come through during times where I didn’t think he [00:24:00] could. Right. And I love how you said, like, remember what he did in the past, because there are times now, right.
Where we’re just like, caught up in fear and anxiety about the future and everyone still struggles with this. I’m sure you still struggle with it. And it’s so easy to, to just get into this, like, you know, mind, like, like just get into a hole or rut basically. Right. And think like, I don’t know what the future holds.
I am scared. There are all these unknowns, God, where are you? But then that’s when I stop and I look back and I say, okay, like in the worst of situations in my life, like this is where God came through. And that just, again, it reminds us. Um, you know, you mentioned Romans 8, 28, it’s one of my favorite verses, God works all things together for our good and His glory.
For the non [00:25:00] Christian, um, listener who, you know, is probably listening to this conversation, can you explain a bit more about that? that verse because I think like so many people just throw it out there and it has a deeper meaning than I think, you know, a lot of people initially think when they’re like, Oh, like everything works for my good, but good also means conforming us more to like the image of Christ right through our suffering.
So can you just elaborate on that a
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. You know what? If you look at any Bible story, really any Bible character, they did not have it easy. And on paper, their circumstances looked actually really hard. I mean, if we really think of it, Daniel thrown into a den full of lions, like that did not look good. Or Paul, he was thrown into prison.
And that would not have been good. I mean, he himself, he wanted to preach the good news to churches as a free man, right? But here he’s chained up and he’s wondering, like, Okay, this is not where I wanted to be when I’m in Rome, but here I am. But in every situation, we see that God, uh, Ephesians [00:26:00] tells us that his ways are higher than ours, that he’s actually able to do more than we could ever ask or imagine.
And so our good, uh, to God’s good is so drastically different. And so the plans that we have, honestly, we might think we have it together, right? If we have all the details set, but God’s plans are bigger and better, but they always prove good. And in the moment they may not in the moment, if we’re only fixed on the short term.
We might get confused and we might feel disillusioned. Like, I thought you were going to work for my good and this clearly does not look for my good. But if you just think of even Jesus, right? He died on the cross and his disciples on that Friday, they certainly would not have called it good. Like, we call it Good Friday today because now we know what God did through that.
But in the moment, they certainly would not have called that good. Here is their leader. They thought their savior, the person that was going to make their [00:27:00] situation better, and he died and he’s crucified. And now they have to run and hide for their scared for their own lives. And they had to wait. And that, I mean, It’s part of the reason why I love that Saturday between Good Friday and Easter Sunday, because we can remember that God is moving and doing something even in that wait when we don’t see the goodness yet, but then Sunday came and Jesus.
rose again. He defeated death. He obliterated sin. He rose again in victory and he’s still alive today. And so because of that, who we believe Jesus, right? We can know then that he promises he will use all things according to his will. Those are that are called according to his purpose. And so that’s us who love him.
He’s going to keep working at all. And we may not be able to see term, but come the long t see that he had a plan an and it was good. It is go [00:28:00] that’s why I wrote a book going to be good because See it with each Bible character. And so I don’t know whoever’s listening, if they’re in the middle of something hard and it certainly doesn’t look good.
We can keep having faith in our good God that somehow, I don’t know how, but I trust that you are going to work this out. And I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. That’s what the psalmist declared. And we can declare that ourselves. The land of the living is in heaven. We don’t have to wait.
Amen. to heaven to see the goodness. But the land of the living is here today. And so we can bank on that like the psalmist and we can say, I don’t get it today. I don’t see how you could ever flip this for good, but I will see your goodness in the land of the living. And I’m going to wait in faith to see that for myself.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Amen. So, so good. Heidi, have you ever read this book called Heaven by Randy Alcorn?
Speaker: You know, what’s funny. I haven’t, but my grandma just [00:29:00] gave that to me as a present. I got to look into it. I got to read it.
Speaker 6: Heidi, it is such an incredible book. My aunt, my aunt Marianne, who I was telling you about when we first started rolling gave me that book, I want to say, I don’t know, a few weeks ago and I’m still like, I’m probably like halfway through. It’s so dense, but it’s one of those books where you really want to like take your time absorbing it and taking notes.
But it basically just like. goes through Revelation and it talks about the new earth, right? And like, I mean, growing up, I didn’t think much about the new earth. I grew up Catholic and then we kind of transitioned to a Christian church when I was in high school. Um, very, very different, but like you never think of like the new earth that, we’re all going to be living on, right?
Like you have this like concept of heaven of like floating in the clouds and like, we’re just going to be there for eternity. And like, honestly, like that thought kind of scared me. I’m like, I don’t know if I like this, but, but then like, you actually get into like revelation and the new earth and how Jesus talks about how we’re going to have roles and jobs and duties, and we’re going to be stewards.
[00:30:00] And like, it just, it changes. It changes everything, like how you live your life here on Earth and how, like, what we do here will also dictate and, like, determine what we do in the new Earth. But I bring that up because, like, having that eternal perspective while we’re going through really difficult circumstances, It changes how you see the circumstance, right?
Like this is not it. Um, and you mentioned the land of the living and I love that because we ultimately like we’ll see good, you know, from whatever horrible situation we’re going through. But I think the other beauty is that like God’s thoughts are higher than our thoughts, right? And like, It might not be until we are with him that we can like see like his eternal plan for everything that was happening here on earth, right?
Like there’s like an eternal plan and like we are so limited in our in our human minds I think I forget which pastor said this but it was like a human trying to understand heaven is like an ant trying to, to navigate the internet. [00:31:00] And it was just like an incredible analogy that like just goes to show like how little our understanding actually is. Yeah. Like whenever I find myself in the grip of like really challenging circumstances and just like you said, like, you don’t know like what, what this good is. I’m like, right. But like God does have a plan. Um, and he has a good purpose and, and something else that’s given me a lot of peace. is, is the verse that like, all of our days were already written in, in the book of life, right?
Like God, like already knew every single thing that would happen in every one of our days, right? And that’s so wild to me, especially when like, you know, as I mentioned earlier about fear over decision making and there’s just so many different treatment options you can navigate and this or that. And like, you know, you’ve struggled with this, I’m sure too, like rumination or thinking, should I have done this or should I have done that?
But like, The beauty is that God already knows the decisions that we will make in the future, [00:32:00] and that’s still part of his plan for our lives, right? And like, I’m starting to learn now that like, I am not too powerful that I could change the plan that God has already ordained for my life. Same thing with my mom, same thing with everyone who abides in him.
Um, But with that, Heidi, like, just tactically, when someone is in the throes of like, a chronic illness, or a really hard situation, or a divorce, and like, they’re really trying to hold on, and they’re thinking, you know, I know God is gonna use this for good, but like, they just can’t see it, and maybe they’ve been struggling for years and years, like, You know, you mentioned you had this diary to your, to your cancer, so to speak.
And I think that’s incredible. And you just spoke truth, but first for those people who are really struggling and who have been struggling for a long time, like what advice could you offer them just tactically on like a daily basis to, to just overcome those thoughts?
Speaker: for sure. My favorite passage, actually my favorite character to just walk behind [00:33:00] Literally step by step by step following behind his footsteps and moments like that is Joseph back in in Genesis because man, he It from the get go, right? He was sold into slavery from his brothers and that looked like a real low.
And then he’s no longer a free man, but now his life is dictated by this slave owner, right? And then he gets falsely accused and for of raping his master’s wife. And so now he’s thrown in a prison for something he didn’t even do. And so it, keeps looking as you track his story. Um, scholars have said the trajectory of his life looks like it keeps going south.
And so maybe in our lives when things keep going south and we don’t see how things could be good, when you read Joseph’s story, especially when he is at the point where he’s in prison, it says the Lord was with him and showed him his face. Now that confuses us if again, we sit in that short term and we’re like, how, how is the Lord showing his faithful love?
[00:34:00] Because I mean, just giving him a good standing with the prison warden, like seems nice, but not the best plan A, right? We know God could send an angel and literally break him free. He does it later. So why couldn’t he do it with Joseph? But then we see that Because of it, right, then all of a sudden someone comes and says, Pharaoh’s having nightmares, and you’re the guy for the job that, that can tell him what these dreams mean.
And so he’s pulled from prison. And now all of a sudden he becomes second in command of this entire nation. And it, the, uh, the Pharaoh actually says to his advisors when he’s looking at Joseph and he says, Can we find any other man who is so obviously ruled and led by the Lord as this man is? And so we see that even from an outside observer, the Lord was clearly with Joseph.
But again, it didn’t look good for years and years and years. And I think so [00:35:00] often we quote that Genesis 50 verse like, what you intended for evil, God used it for good, right? Like Joseph assures his brothers. But actually Joseph didn’t. Say that verse until even his dad was brought to Egypt. 17 years later, his dad passed away, and now he’s trying to assure his brother, he’s like, I’m not going to throw you out.
And so, I mean, we’re looking at four decades later, Joseph is finally able to look back on his life. And he’s like, you know what? You thought you sold me, but it was God who actually sent me. And he said, he sent me. me to save many lives. And, and he said, whatever evil you intended against me, God used it for good.
And so I, for someone who is struggling in the thick of it, and you’re like, where in the world is the goodness? Where in the world is the Lord even? Cause I’m praying and it feels like he’s silent and my prayers are just bouncing off the ceiling. Right. But. When you track Joseph’s story, we actually don’t see any sign of doubt along the way.
[00:36:00] Every step he took, I mean, he certainly wanted out. He certainly didn’t delight in his circumstances, but he was faithful to the Lord, and it says the Lord was faithful. And I think when we immerse ourselves, not in our stories, but in God’s story, that’s really when hope for today blooms again. Because we’re like, okay, so this is who he is.
This is his character. This is what he does. Then if he did that then, because he’s the same yesterday as he is today, then he’s going to move in my life again too. And so I would say just track Joseph’s story. Go through it slowly. Find yourself, like, where are, where do you feel like you’re stuck behind bars and you can’t get out?
Like, Joseph was there. Or where do you feel like someone has betrayed you and your closest family should have stuck up for you and they weren’t there? I mean, Joseph was there. Wherever it may be, I mean, we can find ourselves in his story. But when we track where the Lord shows up and how, in the end, he used it for good, We can trust that he’s going to do the same thing for us too.
We may [00:37:00] not know how today and I get that, but someday we will. And so just keep holding on and our faithful God, because he’s not done with you yet. And he is moving behind the scenes to work you to a place where someday you two will look behind and say, man, it wasn’t this, that was just, I was a victim, but it was actually God who sent me here on purpose.
And you’re going to see why someday. And he’s going to redeem it beyond what you could ever ask or imagine.
Speaker 6: good. Yeah. I, I love that so much. And it just brings to mind like one of my own personal kind of testimonies you could say is like, I would not be sitting here right now, Heidi, talking to you if I didn’t go through a really hard breakup in 2020. And at the time, I mean, I felt like it was the end of my world, right?
Like I just was really not in a great place. But through that, I started Well and Strong and Well and Strong was my saving grace in more ways than one. And it helped me. So many people and continues to help so many people and I’m actually doing it full time [00:38:00] come January 1 I’m leaving my job after eight years.
Speaker 2: Whoa,
Speaker 6: Isn’t that wild? I know my Heidi my backgrounds like in finance, which is so funny completely unrelated to what I’m doing now But yeah, I’ve been with my company for eight years and I’m like, you know what? I’m 29 now. It’s time to just But, but like this came out of something that was really, really horrible, you know, also like my mom’s occurrence, like this, this also, you know, that was a catalyst for, for my creating well and strong.
So yeah, I mean, I just look back and I say, wow, like when I was in the valley, like the deepest of valleys, God showed up and I couldn’t see it at the time. Um, and I love to that, like the most wild thing to me is that. I can look back on some of the worst times in my life and actually be grateful because that’s when I drew nearest to God, right?
Like we don’t draw close to him when we’re on the mountaintops and like everything’s going well. I was having this conversation the other day with a new friend I met at a coffee shop, um, who’s just [00:39:00] like been looking for a job for the past few months and was feeling a little bit discouraged. And I was just thinking, I was like, you know what?
But like through that discouragement, like, You really do draw close to God because you don’t know what to do. And like, you really don’t have anyone else to go to. And he shows up and he meets you where you are. And. I wouldn’t trade that for the world, like that feeling of closeness with God, like despite your external circumstances, because again, it increases your faith and then it builds resilience and resilience is, you know, one of the greatest things we can have in this life because everyone’s going to experience trials and tribulations.
And it’s really just how you learn to trust God amidst those trials that determine like your outlook on everything.
Speaker: Yeah, I really remember. I mean, I knew Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior, but it wasn’t until I was diagnosed with cancer when I realized I actually had cancer. And what I love about God is that He is the Savior of our souls, right, for all eternity. But He’s also the [00:40:00] Savior of our today, too. And I think that’s an important place that I think we all need to grasp at some point, that God doesn’t just want us to, like, say, Save a relationship with him to tell heaven, you know, until we get to eternity.
But he wants to impact our lives now. He wants us to lean on him now. And he wants to prove himself strong on our behalf now. Um, and some day, some days we’ll, we’ll be there and some days it’ll be a little bit easier and we can be grateful for that too. But yeah, like you said it, those trials do bring us to the Lord and he does prove himself strong when we’re there for sure.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and Heidi you have this incredible podcast that is one of my new favorites trade a truth for a lie I’ll be linking it in the show notes. But what is this
Speaker: Portrayed a lie for a truth, Jacqueline. Don’t
Speaker 6: I’m so sorry Heidi See, it’s been a long morning already trade trade a lie for a truth
Speaker: Don’t want people to think, okay, we’re gonna walk away with a bunch of lies. No, no, please.
Speaker 6: you have you have this incredible podcast trade a [00:41:00] trade a lie for a truth and I, I love it. I’ve been listening to it, um, pretty religiously for the past, like two weeks. Um, but what does this look like step by step Heidi for, for the listener out there?
Speaker: Yes. So I don’t know about you, but there are just lies that I can hear either internally, right in my own mind, or lies that I’m hearing other people speak. And when you put them all together, I mean, it can feel like a lot, just a lot to tackle, a lot to handle. And so I like to take it one lie at a time and break it down.
And so there are some lies like, what if I don’t have what it takes? Or what if, um, the worst case does happen and I’m done for or different things like that, where I like to just tackle one line at a time. And when we sit in it and like Ephesians six tells us that we can actually pick up the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God.
And it demolishes every stronghold. It says, um, I love the absolute language of that in Ephesians six, where it says [00:42:00] it will diffuse everything. every single arrow that the enemy tries to throw against us. So his word won’t just diffuse some, it says all. And so when we pick up his word and we actually think, okay, this is a lie I’m believing, so God, what do you have to say about it?
We can actually just diffuse the enemy’s attacks on our life. by doing that. And so that’s why I created that podcast because I want to do that for myself. And I just don’t know if anyone else needs help doing it, but it’s a good thing for me to do. Um, and so yeah, that’s how the whole podcast got birthed.
Yes.
Speaker 6: Heidi, I feel like you’re the type of person, I mean, it sounds like you are similar to me. I have to have like reminders of things like all over my house. So like right now, like I’m just going to take this off my wall so you can see it. But like, this is one of my like, go to just like, Like verses and for listeners, it says, the peace that God gives us when our focus is on him is unexplainable.
Um, it’s not an actual Bible verse. It’s just a reminder that is. biblically based, [00:43:00] right? But it just, it’s like a beautiful reminder that like, you know, the more I see things, like the more it gets ingrained. And like, the more you hear things, the more it gets ingrained. And I’m even, my aunt always tells me like, I mean, there’s a reason the Bible says guard your heart, right?
Because like whatever we see, whatever we hear, like that sits in our, in our subconscious, it sits in our minds. So when you can constantly remind yourself and fill yourself with God’s truth. Like, that’s what you will also, like, pull out, like, push out to the world. And that’s what you’ll also go to whenever you are in a challenging time.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. I, my whole house, it feels like I don’t even have pictures or like any other or
Speaker 9: I love that.
Speaker: the verse here, a Bible verse there because I just need it. I do. I otherwise I tend to forget it.
Speaker 6: I love that. Are you a journaler too, Heidi?
Speaker: Yes. I love. In fact, though, I lost my journal. We’re moving right now.
Speaker 8: You’re moving.
Speaker: a box and I’ve tried to pick up a new one and I just, uh, so [00:44:00] I feel a little unsettled, but yes, I love to journal. I’ve been journaling since I was a little girl. In fact, that was the only way my mom would get me to sit down
Speaker 9: Oh,
Speaker: toilet and be potty trained as if I had a pen and paper in hand.
So I have been journaling since like two and it is just so
Speaker 9: love
Speaker 6: that.
Speaker: to
Speaker 6: It really is. And I love, I love prayer journaling. That’s like a relatively new thing I started doing. You’ve heard of Stephanie Mae Wilson, I’m sure, right? She was one of the very first podcasts I ever started listening to, Heidi. And when I started mine, I was like, who’s one person that I’ve always wanted to have on? I was like, Stephanie. So we got to have an incredible conversation. She’s in Spain right now with her family, which is again, wild to me.
But, um, but yeah, but Stephanie always spoke about prayer journaling. And after talking to her, I literally bought like, All three of her like prayer journal books and they’re just incredible and it’s just it’s really beautiful to be able to like look back at your prayer requests like tangibly on on paper and see like, Hey, like [00:45:00] I was praying for this at one point and like God didn’t answer this right going back to like, you know, reminding ourselves of when God came through.
So I really love that. And it’s just, it’s just an opportunity to just, you know, talk, talk to God, like express yourself like on paper. Um, because sometimes I think it’s hard to pray sometimes, right? Like it was funny the other week when I was home with my mom, like we say our prayers together at night and I was just, you know, talking to him like, mom, like, how do you, how do you actually pray?
And She tends to, like, say the same thing every night. Like, and I do that, too. It’s like, God, like, you want to, like, cover all your bases, you know, it’s like, protect my family, keep us healthy, you know. And then I started thinking about it more, and I’m like, that’s all beautiful and good, but, like, it doesn’t feel like a conversation.
And I find that, like, the more I feel like I’m conversing with God, right, like actually talking with Him rather than talking to Him, I’m more likely to pray. So like, I love doing things like prayer walks, right, in the morning. And then, like, just journaling, right? Because it [00:46:00] really like makes you think about, okay, I’m not just going to cover my bases.
I really want to talk to God about like what is on my heart, um, and what’s going on. And, and with that too, Heidi, like something else that I’m still trying to work on, and I mentioned it. just before, but like talking with God rather than to him. And that also implies that like, you are listening, right? So like, sometimes I feel like I’m doing all of the talking.
I’ll just like sit and wait and like close my eyes and be like, all right, God, like, what do you want to tell me? But I don’t hear anything. What do you do when you’re trying to like discern hearing from God? Like what does that look like for you?
Speaker: Yeah. You know, I always tell my kids, cause we’ve tried to teach them, right, that prayer isn’t just a one way conversation, but it’s awfully hard to get kids to sit and listen, um, especially when they can’t hear anything audibly. And so I get that because I think we adults are very much the same way. And what I love is that God has given us 66 books of his entire word.
So I tell my kids, you don’t [00:47:00] ever have to feel like God is being silent because this is literally his voice. And so every time you pick up his word, you can know this is actually God speaking to me right now. This wasn’t just written thousands of years ago for whoever the recipient of those letters were.
These are, these words are for us today. And so when we pick them up, we can know his word is living and active. He will meet us. right where we are. He will pierce our soul with his words. And you know, some days you can feel that, right? And some days you can’t, but the truth of the matter is our feelings do not dictate truth.
His word is what dictates truth. And so we can know when we’re opening it up that God’s going to meet me here. And what I read is what he’s saying to me. And I just have to ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate that and to
Speaker 8: I love
Speaker: my eyes to hear it and actually see what he’s trying to tell me. If that makes
Speaker 6: so good. No, 100%. It’s a journey,
Speaker: It is.
Speaker 6: it really is a journey. It’s so funny too, because I look [00:48:00] back like, even in my like early 20s, like the way I pray has changed so much. Um, and it’s really beautiful because Again, like God meets us where we are, you know, like we don’t, like, we’ll never actually ever be like quote unquote there, right?
Like where we think in life, it’s like when I’m, you know, 50 years old, I will be there. Like I’ll have it all figured out. Like I’ll know how to hear from God. Like it doesn’t work like that. It’s a journey, but it’s just really beautiful. How, you know, He meets us where we’re at. And like, even for me, like, I find that he, he talks through people.
Right. And that’s why it’s important to have wise counsel and solid community because God does talk through people, um, as well. So I love that.
Speaker: I feel like it’s second Corinthians, but I could be wrong. But I do always remember that, that verse where it’s like, he’s taking us from glory to glory. So it doesn’t, we might feel like we’re stagnant or we’re maybe backtracking or taking the roundabout way, but. God is taking us from glory to glory every day.
We’re being transformed [00:49:00] into the likeness of Christ. He’s faithful to that and he’ll bring it to completion. So like you said, it’s a journey. It’s just really on us to just take the steps of faith, right? To every day, take those steps of faith forward and know that our God is leading us, he’s guiding us as the good shepherd.
We’re not going to lose the way because he is the way. So we can just keep going. Taking those steps forward and he’s going to lead us where he wants us to
Speaker 6: I love that. Yeah. And, and to that point too, Heidi, I mean, that’s another thing I’ve like, understood I think on a deeper level this year is that like we don’t have to be paralyzed by decisions because I’ve gotten to a point like earlier this year where I literally like felt like I couldn’t do anything because I was parent like I was fearful of making the wrong decision.
Um, but going back to what we were talking about earlier, like, God really does guide our steps, and if we are abiding in Him, and, you know, we’re presented with two equally good options, like, He can’t, like, we can’t go wrong. Like, He, He’s in control of the outcome. Um, and I think just knowing that it [00:50:00] takes this pressure burden, right, off of ourselves, that we can take active steps of faith forward, And like God will always reroute us and like he has our back and it comes down to knowing the character of God, I realized like God is not someone who like, you know, if we make the wrong move, he’s going to be like, Oh, sorry, like you missed it.
It’s like, no, he knows our hearts and tensions. He knows, you know, what, you know, if we desire to really follow him. Um, so I love that. Heidi, you’re,
Speaker: off. It does take the pressure off for sure. Where it’s like, you know, he’s going to keep leading you on. You just have to take the steps and he’ll take it from
Speaker 6: yeah, 100%. Heidi, you’re incredible. I wish you lived closer to me because I would like come over your house every day and be like, Heidi, let’s talk.
Speaker: to be out of this tundra. I’m still like, Ty, why do we live up in the snow globe of Minnesota? I
Speaker 6: Come move, move to Greenville, South Carolina. Where are you moving? Are you moving like down the street? Are you moving like somewhere?
Speaker: literally moving like four miles away. So
Speaker 9: I love that.
Speaker: I, we told each of our family members, [00:51:00] cause we all live super local. And we said, we just need one person to move, whoever moves, we will follow, but we just need you guys to make the move. No one has yet. So we’ll see.
Speaker 6: I love that. Well, you guys definitely have to come visit me. This, this has been so encouraging. I could talk to you for another couple hours. I really could. We
Speaker 2: I have to
Speaker: say, you know what’s funny? Is there was a girl, one of my followers sent me, this is how I found you, was one of my followers sent me one of your images. When you’re posting, she’s like, I feel like she’s similar to you and you would like really love her.
And I do really love her. Thank you. Follow and listen and all the things. So when you reached out to do this podcast, this was an honor. I’m just so,
Speaker 6: that, Heidi.
Speaker: I still love you so much.
Speaker 6: Oh, I do too. You’re, you’re so special. I love, I love all of your work. You’re just, you’re, you’re, you’re sunshine. That’s what you are. You’re sunshine and your encouragement and you, you help so many people. Your illustrations help me all the time. Most of my like save, I don’t really save posts that often, but I literally have a whole folder just [00:52:00] dedicated
Speaker 9: to you. Save, save. But, uh,
Speaker: I’m a, I’m a chronic saver. So I was like, I just like everything it’s like, I’ll come back to this and then I never come back to it. But that’s, you are so sweet, Jacqueline. You’re
Speaker 6: You’re sweet, Heidi. Well, I really do hope to meet you one day in person, but we are coming up on time. Um, wild. We’ve been talking for almost an hour. Feels like five minutes, but where, first of all, where can listeners, um, find you, find all your books? You have an incredible Advent book. that I had shared a couple weeks ago, so I want to hear everything that you can, I can link in the notes.
Speaker: Yeah, well, okay, so you can always find me at Heidi Lee Anderson on social media. I’d love to be best friends over there. My website is Heidi Lee Anderson ministries. com. And I do kids curriculum like that. Just kids, devotionals, family devotionals that you can sit down and do with your kids. If you’re a mom, I don’t know if other moms felt this way, but I just feel like.
like there are so many resources out there, but I just wanted like a script. I didn’t want like open ended questions. Like talk to your kids about how Mary [00:53:00] was a virgin. I’m like, I need someone to break this down for me. Like I need word for word how to do that because that feels intense. Um, and so all my devotionals are like that.
They’re basically like, yeah. Basically one page script per day with action, interactive cues included and fun principles that your kids can, um, stay engaged along the way. And then yes, my book is called PS. It’s going to be good. It’s available wherever you buy books. It has 20 chapters and every chapter is a title is titled a question like what if the worst case happens or what if my reality doesn’t line up with God’s promises or what, why is God silent?
And, and every chapter we follow behind that. The footsteps as if in real time, a different Bible hero. So you’ll follow 20 Bible heroes and we find the answers along the way. So, yeah, that’s kind of all my information. I’ve got another one in the, in the works that’s coming out next October. So that’s yeah.
Speaker 6: have to, well, I’m gonna have you back on obviously before then, but I care to talk about that one too.
Speaker: that’ll be good. But yeah, I’d love to connect after this for sure. So thank you, Jacqueline, for having
Speaker 6: [00:54:00] Always, Heidi.
Speaker: this was a delight.
Speaker 6: You’re, you’re so sweet. I have one more question for you, and this is always my favorite one to ask. I say that every show, and that is, what does being well and strong mean to you?
Speaker: Okay. Well, I actually just think always of Psalm 1 with this, where it talks about, different blessings, right? But it says blessed is the one whose delight is in the law of the Lord. And I, I’m an image person where I like to picture things. And it talks about how that person is like a tree planted by streams of water and it yields fruit in whatever season, the leaves don’t wither, but it prospers.
And that’s what I think of being like, well, and strong is that, Our Lord is strong for us, right? When we are weak, he is strong. And so we just need to remain planted by him and we’re going to bear fruit in time. Are we, our leaves won’t wither. We’re actually going to prosper in the way that the Lord wants us to prosper.
And, uh, yeah, it’s all found in him and by [00:55:00] seeking and dwelling, planting our roots down in
Speaker 6: I love that, Heidi. And that’s honestly the reason why my symbol for well and strong is an olive branch, because olive branches are like some of the most resilient, uh, plants out there. So I love that.
Speaker: I love it. That’s awesome. Jacqueline. Very cool. It comes from a circle.
Speaker 6: yeah, exactly. Full circle. Well, Heidi, this has been an incredible conversation again. I love you. I love your work.
I really do hope to meet you one day in person and you’re going to be back on. I know that there’s so much to talk about, but I know this is going to encourage a lot, a lot of listeners.
Speaker: Hmm. Well, I love you so much. Thanks again for having me. Talk to you next time.
