I’m so excited about today’s episode, because I think it’s about a topic that is super sensitive, especially around the holidays. And that is the topic of singleness. Join me as I sit down with my new friend Ryan Wekenman, the teaching pastor of Red Rocks Austin, as we discuss all things “singleness.” He recently wrote an incredible book called, Single Today: Conquer Yesterday’s Regrets, Ditch Tomorrow’s Worries, and Thrive Right Where You Are. In this episode, Ryan is sharing his journey as an unmarried pastor for over a decade. He has such a unique perspective on the topic of singleness, and I personally found this conversation so encouraging.
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*Unedited Transcript*
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Jacqueline: [00:00:00] Just to, to kick things off, Ryan, so I first heard about you on Stephanie May Wilson’s podcast. I love Stephanie. It was funny. I told Stephanie, I knew her back in 2020 before she even knew I existed. And she really helped me through a breakup through her podcast. So when I started my podcast, I was like, who You know, some of the people I really want to have on my show, and she obviously was one of them.
So, I always listen to her, her podcast, pretty avidly, and, and I heard your name, and I heard your conversation, and I was like, I need to have Ryan on mine. He’s so great.
Ryan: Oh man, she’s, Stephanie’s awesome. She’s been a good friend for many years.
Jacqueline: Are you going to go visit her in Spain?
Ryan: I, I would love to, I’ve actually never been.
Jacqueline: Really? Same. I’ll go with you. We can go visit her together. I told her. I was like, I’m coming to visit you.
Ryan: Perhaps that would be fun.
Jacqueline: Anyway, Ryan. So just for, for context for you too. So I started my podcast, I want to say a year and a half ago. And Well and Strong, obviously is a lot about [00:01:00] wellness topics, mostly physical health. But over the past several months, I’ve really started branching out into topics that are I personally need help with and that I think a lot of other people need help with, too.
And I think a critical part of health is our spiritual health, um, and our mental health, both of which are often very overlooked in this age of biohacking and performance optimization. So I just want to kind of bring more of that Into this show, um, and again, things that I’m struggling with. I, I had a conversation the other week with the pastor about suffering and another one on waiting, and I’m sure you’re familiar with their names, but I haven’t yet had one on the topic of singleness, which I know you are, um, again, an expert in.
You have an awesome book that just came out. I didn’t, it didn’t just come out, but it’s recent for me. I finished reading it last night, uh, single today. I’ll be linking in the show notes, but this is just a topic that. Everyone is going to struggle with at some point in their lives, which you so brilliantly highlighted, and I would [00:02:00] just love to, to get into it and kind of use this too as a therapy session for me, Ryan,
Ryan: let’s do it. Absolutely.
Jacqueline: Just to get right into it, Um, for folks who have not, who do not know you or your story, why did you write this book?
Ryan: Yeah. So I have been single my entire life. Um, I’m, I’m, uh, 34 years old, um, and I’ve been a pastor for the last 10 years. Um, 11 years. I don’t know. I, I lose track of, of the years, but, um, In especially this branch, my branch of, of Christianity, um, most pastors, in fact, every, pretty much every pastor is married.
And so being a single pastor is, um, it’s just a interesting space to be in. And so I always felt this, this, um, pressure, especially early on in my twenties, like, Hey, if you’re going to be a pastor, you got to be getting married. Um, and then what’s ironic about that is you start reading the Bible and you [00:03:00] realize like, okay, but Jesus was single and Paul was single and we’re pretty sure Martha was single and John the Baptist appears to be single.
Um, and so the Bible actually has a ton to say about singleness, um, that it’s not, Just this like curse that you have to endure, but it’s actually a gift that you can learn how to step into and enjoy. Um, I didn’t know that at first. And so this is really the book, Single Today is the book I wish I had 10 years ago.
Um, when I was, was first starting out. Yeah, right. Of somebody, uh, saying, hey, there’s actually like a lot of beauty. Uh, to being single. It’s actually a very sacred, uh, thing that you can, you can learn to actually truly enjoy. Um, and so that’s like the, the, the heart behind it is I’m, I’m writing to the people who feel like there’s something wrong with them
because they’re
Jacqueline: that. I know. That’s, that’s so good. And. I mean, in that same vein too, Ryan, like, what would you say to the person [00:04:00] who is unsure if singleness is God’s calling on their life, right? Because I feel like, I mean, again, I’m in the South right now. I moved here from Boston. Everyone gets married, Ryan, at like 21, 22.
So a friend told me today it was like ring before spring is like the thing they all say. So that’s, that’s a real thing here. And coming from the North, you know, Northeast. People don’t really get married until, you know, very late 20s, early 30s, and that’s the norm. But, you know, for someone who is in their early 30s, let’s say, who has a desire to get married, and they’ve been praying about it, and they’re still not sure, like, what God is, is really telling them, like, what would you say to them if, you know, if, if they’re unsure if singleness is God’s calling on, on their life, if they’re having those confused feelings?
Ryan: Such a good question. That’s, that’s the real question, right? And, um, first off, let me start here. Marriage, uh, is a beautiful thing. It’s God’s [00:05:00] design. Um, sometimes I feel like. because I’m, I’ve talked a lot about singleness. People think I’m against it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Um, I officiate weddings all the time.
I’m constantly pushing people towards marriage. Um, I think we actually, and we can get into this, there’s a rise in singleness that isn’t all healthy, um, that I have, I’ve been trying to, to speak into of like, Hey, marriage is still a good God honoring thing that we should pursue. However, I say that to, to say this, that desire that you have, that’s good, beautiful desire.
Um, the question, how do I know if I’m called to be single? That’s where the title of the book comes in. Um, the book is called single today because today if you are single, then you are called to be single today. If you are single today, then then singleness is a gift in your life today, and if you are engaged today, then [00:06:00] engagement is a gift in your life today.
And if you are married today, then marriage is a gift in your life today. And I say that because there are a lot of topics, but singleness seems to be at the top of this list of topics that make us stress out about the future. And overthink tomorrow. Um, and there are a lot of reasons for that, that, that we can get into.
Um, however, uh, Jesus said things like, Hey, don’t worry about tomorrow. There are people for you to love today. There’s purpose for you to step into today. I’ve got plans for your life today. And so instead of ruminating on the past or overthinking and spiraling about what this means for my future, what if today you double down on being here right now?
Um, and so to the single person. Uh, who has a deep desire for marriage. I, I I’m in your corner. I, I’m cheering you on. I’m believing that that day is coming. And also today, what are the opportunities that singleness [00:07:00] presents you with right here and now?
Jacqueline: That’s so good. And you hit the nail on the head in your book, and that’s something I still struggle with, is that constant living in the future. And I think for me, too, I mean, I’m always thinking about, like, every time I go home for family holidays, right, and I feel like I wish I talked to you before Thanksgiving, but there’s always, you know, those questions from your family. And I know you had some great tips on how to do [00:08:00] that in your book that I’d love for you to share But I mean, yeah, just just like tactically though Ryan like how do you actually like stay present?
In this day because my mind’s constantly thinking, okay Well just another year around the sun right like another holiday without a potential person at the table um, and it does create a lot of angst and anxiety and I think something i’ve kind of struggled with too lately is It’s like you want to put yourself in as many situations as possible to meet someone And it’s very stressful right because we can’t say yes to everything And I think stephanie had mentioned this to you, too but You know, it’s like putting control into our own hands where we’re like, oh, if I don’t accept that invite, maybe I won’t meet my future spouse, like maybe he’ll be at that party or that event, and we could just drive ourselves mad, right?
With all of these like, what ifs? So, a few of the thoughts that I deal with on a, on a daily basis.
Ryan: Thank you for sharing.
Jacqueline: You’re welcome.[00:09:00]
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. There’s a, there’s so much there. First off, I have noticed that, uh, birthday and holidays are the two hardest times to be single. Um, I think Valentine’s day is this honorable mention on that list. What I’ve noticed is that most people are outsmarting Valentine’s day for, for what it really is and are learning how to laugh at it.
Right. Um, but man, Thanksgiving and Christmas are, it can be really hard. Um, especially when like, I love a good Christmas movie. But watch enough Christmas movies and you almost start to feel like the point of Christmas is romance,
Jacqueline: So true. I just, I just finished watching a, a Prince one last night. My mom and I are like big Hallmark Prince fanatics, but yeah, those are, that’s pretty much like every single Christmas movie involves some type of romance.
Ryan: Totally and and I love I love a good Christmas movie, you know but like [00:10:00] You watch Elf and you see like the, the date that Buddy and what’s the, uh, Jess
from New Girl. What’s her name? You know what
I’m talking about Zoe. I don’t know. I’m going to get it wrong. Um, they go on that date in Manhattan and you start to feel like, Oh no, like I’m missing out on Christmas.
And let me just start here. Um, as a single pastor who’s gone through many Christmases single, it’s like my joy to remind people that that’s not the point of Christmas.
Jacqueline: Yeah, that’s so
Ryan: It just isn’t, you know, it can fine, it can be a great subplot to, to Christmas that that’s great, but romance isn’t the point of, of of Christmas.
The, the point of Christmas is that, uh, God and his love stepped out of heaven to to be with us. That’s why the, the title is Emmanuel, one of the titles that give Jesus’s Emmanuel, which means God. And so the whole point of Christmas is actually that you’re never alone. And so while culture in the world is going to try to make you feel like [00:11:00] there’s something wrong with you, if you are alone during Christmas, um, actually you are participating in the very message of Christmas, which is God draws near to the broken hearted and that God is always with you.
So to the person watching this, whether it’s, it’s during the holidays or not. Um, man, let’s just start here. You are never alone. God is always with you. And I don’t mean that just as cheap comfort. I mean that as truth that I believe to my core. Um, now the very practical question of what do you do at dinner?
You know, when, like, when your family is asking you questions, Um, And, uh, if I may just first address, if there’s somebody listening to this who, uh, is the family member who, uh, has the, the son or the daughter that’s coming home for the holidays or whatever, um, can I just ask for some grace for us, uh, especially over the holidays, like we know that we’re single, nobody knows that we’re single [00:12:00] more than we are.
More than we do. And so give us some, some grace. Um, but for the single person watching this, the first thing I tell myself is, uh, when somebody asks me like, well, why are you still single? Uh, is, are you dating anyone? Um, in the back of my mind, I say to myself, they’re asking because they care.
They’re asking because they care.
And that’s important. Because it doesn’t feel like it, right? Like, it feels like they’re, they’re, they’re coming after us. And,
and,
Jacqueline: brings up this like, internal like, battle that you already have, and it just reminds you of it when you’re like, trying to not think of it. It’s like the one thing you don’t want to talk about.
~And you like, see your aunt, and she’s like, So, like, do you meet anybody? And it’s like, ~
Ryan: Totally, right? like our biggest insecurity they’re, they’re bringing up. And so, some of us go into, to fight mode. Some of us go into flight mode, you know? So you either start like throwing dishes or you just shut down and like, go silent. Or for me, it’s like a weird combination of both of those, you
know? Um, [00:13:00] And so I have to remind myself on repeat, like, Hey, they’re asking because they care. They’re asking me like, like asking somebody about, uh, their romantic life is actually like a pretty standard thing to ask somebody about. Um, it’s just that for us in this situation, it feels like an all out assault on a, on a deep wound.
Uh, of ours. Um, and so I, I start there and I, and I, um, try to, to say that to myself so that I can respond to them instead of just reacting. Um, and then what I’ve noticed is one of the reasons I get insecure, have gotten insecure about that question historically is because it would always be a conversation ender as in like, I would just answer like, no, uh, I’m, I’m not seeing anyone.
And then they would be like, okay, like I didn’t have a follow up to that. And so I guess we’ll just move on.
Jacqueline: right. It’s not like, yeah, it’s not like, how are you? Like, [00:14:00] how’s your job? How’s your life? It’s just like, are you dating anyone?
Ryan: Yeah. And if the answer is yes, it opened up to all sorts of interesting opportunities. But if the answer is no, it feels like we just like turned off the movie. You know, and, and so one of the things I’ve learned how to do is turn the conversation ender into a conversation starter. Um, and so I, I say things like actually, um, for, this is just my answer for, uh, the last 10 years I’ve, I’ve been a single pastor and I know that’s kind of a unique journey.
Um, but I’ve always felt really independent and felt really comfortable being by myself. And so I’ve noticed that singleness is actually this, this gift that I have been enjoying. And I say it like that so that now. Sally on the other side of the table has a whole bunch of follow up questions that, that she can ask, right?
And so maybe even doing a little bit of homework be before, uh, the dinner or before you go home to, to see your family and think like, okay, what, what, how could I answer this? That question in a way that opens [00:15:00] up the, the opportunity for more conversations to be a conversation starter instead of an end.
Jacqueline: Ryan, here’s another question for you. So how do we deal, when I say we, I’m referring to myself, because I know, I know that, my family, love them to pieces. And again, you highlighted it. They ask because they care, but I know that like, they’ll sometimes like talk about you behind your back about their concerns if you’re single and whatnot.
And then there will be some people who will like voice their opinions about like what they think you should do to meet someone, or maybe you should consider moving or, you know, switching things up. How do you deal with I guess like unwanted like opinions like that or maybe not unwanted but like just just opinions of other people and this is something I’ve I’ve struggled with too is, I mean, I’ve been in Greenville for, again, like two, two and a half years now, and, um, I’m still single currently, and I’ve had a few family members kind of mention, you know, you might want to consider moving, [00:16:00] um, to like a bigger city, like a Charlotte, where there’s quote unquote, a larger dating pool.
And I haven’t really felt compelled Ryan to move cities like I, I just haven’t felt that desire. And I think that if I did, it would be out of fear, um, of just, you know, what if I didn’t move, right? So in those types of circumstances too, like, I guess that’s a two fold question. A, like, how do you, how do you respond to family opinions about that?
And then B, like, how do you actually, like, Consider them. Um, if, if you don’t think that, like, that’s the best thing for you. Did that make sense?
Ryan: Makes total sense. What um, What emotions are comin come up for you when, when family members ask those types of questions to you? Say,
Jacqueline: Fear. Um, definitely fear. Um,
Ryan: more about the Fear
Jacqueline: yeah, just fear of, of missing out, right? Of, of [00:17:00] missing out on the potential to meet someone that, You know, God might have for me. And then again, I look back to, to scripture and I know that like, God is obviously the power to bring people into your life. I mean, he guides our steps.
Ruth wasn’t even planning on meeting Boaz, like God wasn’t even mentioned in the book of Ruth. Like she just happened upon Boaz’s field. And I look to that and I’m like, okay, so like, just because I don’t do this doesn’t prevent God from bringing me someone, but then there’s a human part of us, right?
That’s like, but what can I do that’s in my control to quote unquote, like optimize my chances.
Ryan: Isn’t it funny how, like we have, a story about a god who, created all of this and went to these like crazy lengths to to be with us and it’s story after story after story of human beings getting to the end of themselves and then God moving in and doing something and yet like we know all those stories and [00:18:00] yet we still feel like it’s our job to like step in and do something.
Uh, about this, right? And it’s just, it’s just, it’s human nature. I do it too, all of the time in my own ways. Um, I just don’t think, uh, God needs us to be in a certain city for, for the right door to, to open. Um, And so I, I think to me, what I hear you saying is you have lots of people in your life who love you enough to, to weigh in on and give advice.
And that’s a really beautiful thing that you are celebrating. It also sounds to me like, like what you’re saying is, uh, it’s not. resonating with what you feel like the Lord is inviting you, you into, um, in other words, you feel like very content being where you are. And to that, I would say, so it sounds like you stay where you’re at for now.
Um, and that you’re going to know, you’re going to know [00:19:00] quickly when it’s time to move on. You’ll just know, um, like discernment is the word we, we use. Um, and if someone’s watching this and they’re, they’re, uh, newer, maybe not. Into the Christianity. And they’re like, what is this guy talking about? Get it.
Discernment is just knowing in your knower, like somewhere deep down where you’re just like, no, I, I, I know I’m supposed to be here right now. Um, and then there might come a day where you’re, you look around, um, the town that you’re in and you’re like, it’s why am I here? Um, it’s time, it’s time to go. And at that point you’re going to go.
Um, and so I think a lot of, of growing up and life is learning how to take people you love when they give you advice and they give you when they say things, taking it all in and then learning to evaluate it. Now, uh, that’s a lot easier when, I think I’ve never been married, but I would imagine that’s a lot easier when you’re married because now you have somebody else in your corner and you can be like, okay, so [00:20:00] here’s what these people are Yes, this together
when you’re.
When you’re single, you don’t necessarily have that. And so, um, that just means we get this opportunity, um, to learn how to do that on our own. And it’s not an easy thing to do. Um, but it is a really beautiful part, part of the, the discernment. journey. Does that, does that make any sense?
Is that bringing up anything for you? no it makes total sense. I love that you use the word opportunity Um, and it’s funny because for me, I feel like I’m the most indecisive person when it comes to things like Choosing what I want to eat at a restaurant or what color to paint my nails when it comes to big life decisions Like moving cities.
Jacqueline: I’m like, yeah, let’s go like this is one for me But um, yeah, I think it’s just again holding true to what? You know, you feel the Lord is leading you to. And again, I have really haven’t felt a desire to change cities, at least at this point right now.
Ryan: How did you feel when you moved, when you left Boston? What, what was it?
Jacqueline: Um, I left Boston in 2020 and I left actually because of [00:21:00] my breakup. I was like, I just need to get a change. Um, so I lived at home for several months or so. And then I started exploring Southern cities and. You’re gonna laugh, Ryan, about this, like, the story of how I found Greenville. Again, it was not on my radar at all.
I didn’t even know what Greenville was. I had a friend that I actually helped out, um, I did, like, the marketing for this cancer podcast, and one of the co hosts on that show lives near Greenville, and he knew I was exploring some southern cities, and he was like, you should check out Greenville, South Carolina.
And I was like, Jim, what is Greenville? I’ve never heard of this place before. So after visiting Charlotte, Ryan, with my sister and her husband, I took a solo trip by myself to Asheville just to check it out. And then I was driving back to the airport in Charlotte. In the back of my mind, I was thinking, what’s one other city that I may have wanted to visit that I didn’t get a chance to.
And I just. I heard Greenville and I mapped it. Ryan, it could have been six hours for all I knew. It was an hour and a half from Asheville. [00:22:00] So I changed my flight last minute. I drove here on a whim and I was here for all of maybe two hours. And I was like, this is really cute. And the crazy thing, and I don’t know if this was a godwink or not, but I ended up parking next to Jim, this man’s truck downtown, not even knowing it was his truck.
He just like happened to be having lunch with his insurance agent that day, which was so random. But I just felt like, again, it wasn’t on my radar and I was brought here for a reason, even if I still don’t know what that is now. But it just gave me peace, I think, looking back and knowing that, like, God is still guiding my steps, you know, even if I don’t feel like it.
Ryan: Thank you for saying that was so well said that piece that you’re talking about. That’s that discernment, right? And when you’re, when your family brings up like, well, maybe you do this, maybe you do that. You say, okay, thank you. But I’m going to wait for that piece, right? I’m going to wait for that. Like, Oh, I need to [00:23:00] go change my flight and just go check this, this place out.
Like on paper, that story makes no sense,
Jacqueline: Right. Zero sense.
Ryan: but to you right now talking, it makes all the sense in the world.
Jacqueline: Yeah. It was so funny. My family was like, why is she moving to South Carolina? I was like, you don’t know. It was like, Greenville is not the middle of nowhere. Don’t worry. It’s
Ryan: uh, it’s so good. Yeah. It’s, um, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. And now to the person listening, like, yeah, but I don’t feel that piece. Like I get it most days. Aren’t that like, that like breakthrough moment where you’re like, okay, I know what to do. Most days feel more like wandering through a foggy, uh, trying to find something and putting one foot in front of, of the other.
But when it comes to the big life decisions, like you just know, you know, somehow. yeah. I’ll keep you posted on what ends up happening, but you gotta come visit me in Greenville. One other thing, Ryan, that you mentioned before, how like today is basically, you know, this is the day God [00:24:00] has given us, um, In whatever our relationship status is, and I forget who her name is. Oh, Paige Brown.
Jacqueline: Have you heard of Paige Brown before?
She, um, she does a Bible study. Um, I think she’s based in Nashville, but I listened to one of her, her sermons one time and she said, or her studies one time, and she said something that was so good. And it was that like, God only gives us his best. So if you are single at this moment in time, that is God’s best for you.
And that was completely like, Life changing for me because it just made me again realize like for whatever reason God knows that at this point in time, like singleness is what is best for me. Um, but for people who struggle with this tension, right, between trusting God’s timing and the desire for a relationship or folks who have been waiting for years and years, how do they reconcile again, this desire for a relationship, but also realizing that, okay, in this present [00:25:00] moment, God has me single because it’s his best.
Um, or it’s in my best interest, right?
Ryan: And there’s no like real easy, clear cut answer for that. Um, because all of life is sacrifice. Like, uh, my, most of my friends are, uh, parents with young kids. And there’s a whole lot of things they can’t do anymore or don’t have time to do or have to say no to because they’re constantly parenting their kids.
And so you say yes to kids, you’re saying no to a whole lot of other things. It’s just how, how life works. We can’t do everything at once. Now they would never trade, you know, like at the end of the day, they’re like, I’m so glad that I, that I have this. Um, but to the single person, One thing I’ve, I’ve just noticed over the years of talking about this stuff is because it comes so naturally to me, cause I just like being single, um, I’ve had to, to realize and learn that that’s not most [00:26:00] people’s story.
Um, so it’s like a really sensitive subject for a lot of people who are like, yeah, but like, I really want to, to be in, in that relationship. And to that, I just say, I think. Um, there’s something really pure and holy, uh, about realizing that, that you can do everything that, that you want in your life, but you don’t have to do it today.
Um, and so, uh, the, the more interesting question to me is what is one step you can take today to become the type of person, the person you would want to be with, would want to be with, right? It is, uh, like, okay, can I, here’s, here’s a, a, a fun story. Um, do we have time? What’s the, what are we, okay.
Um, I love this format, by the way, the way that you host these is so, so much fun.
It’s like not I just feel like, yeah, it’s just, it’s real, right? I, I
Jacqueline: used to, when I first started doing [00:27:00] them, Ryan, I had like all these outlines and like structured questions. And I was like, I have to hit everything. But now I’m just like, just go with the flow. Like,
Ryan: We’ll let it happen. So, um, a while back, it was a Monday evening and I was at a coffee shop finishing up my writing for, for the night. And I was like, okay, I’m done. I’ve hit my limit time to go pick up some food. And I was going to watch Monday night football. Cause I love Monday night football. And, um, so I stopped at Chipotle, which I know this is like.
There’s it’s, I know it’s not always the healthiest option. I try to do, try to go the healthy way.
Jacqueline: No judgment, Ryan.
Ryan: Thank you. Uh, the line is out the door and I show up and I’m so angry. I’m like, who, why is the line at the door at Chipotle? There’s better options. And, um, there’s this young couple in front of me and they’re like, you can tell they’re like newly
like in love, you know, like, and I’m just like, whatever.
And I put my AirPods in, you know, and I’m watching the football game. And, um, [00:28:00] it takes 30 minutes to get to the front of the line at Chipotle.
Jacqueline: That’s wild.
Ryan: And we finally get there. And the guy, you know, like some teenager is just like, Oh, what would you like to the couple in front of me? And they go, Hmm, what do I want at Chipotle today?
What did I. How
Jacqueline: did you not lose it? I’m standing behind them just like,
Ryan: what, what did you think was going to happen? And more importantly, what have you been doing for the last 30 minutes? You know, like you had 30 minutes to decide this. You should know whether you’re going burrito or
bowl, you know? And um, I remember thinking in that moment, I wonder if that’s what single people look like from God’s perspective sometimes where it’s like, we have all of this time.
Time
and it’s like, Hey, what did you think was going to happen when two became one through merit? [00:29:00] Like that means that your hurts and your habits and your hang ups become the other person’s hurts and that like they like they inherit that that means like Your debt that you’re carrying around with you like they’re also now
inheriting that you know what I mean?
And it’s like you had all of this time as a single person to start to work through some of that stuff and, um, to, to become the type of person that, that you want to be in the type of person, the person you’d want to be with would want to, to be with, like, what have you been doing for the last 30 minutes as you’ve been standing in line at Chipotle?
Um, and so it’s a silly story. But that’s the one that always, like, just come, comes to mind for me for people who are single is like, Hey, you can start taking steps in the right direction today. Now this is important. Nobody’s ever perfect, right? And you’re, you’re never going to be ready quote unquote for, for marriage.
And so don’t hear me say, there’s like some crazy standard that you have to, to get to none of that, throw all that out the window. [00:30:00] In fact, I think it’s a silly game to think like, well, if I can just get here, you know, then the Lord is going to bless me with, with something. It’s always going to be two imperfect people.
We got that, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not things that you can do today, um, to, to go, go to therapy, you know, go, go, um, work through some of the, the, the stuff, I’m not saying this directly to you, I’m saying this. The people listening like, like work through like getting finances and in order work through dreaming about the future and the, the career path that, that you want to be on.
Um, you know what I mean? I just feel
like, I feel like there’s a lot that we can do
while we’re single. there is. And to the, to the time point too. I mean, I look back and I’m just thinking like, there is no way that I would be as far as I’ve been able to get in building well and strong, even with this podcast, had I been in a relationship because I just, I mean, we all do like we pour out so much of ourselves, right.
Jacqueline: Into another person. And again, like God knew over the [00:31:00] past. Three years that I needed to devote all of my time to this platform. Um, and actually Ryan, I’m leaving my full time job after eight years in December to pursue well and strong full
time. no way.
Ryan: Hey, congratulations. That’s well done. That’s um, Most people will never understand how much work that actually takes it to get to that point. Yeah, content creation is a wild career.
Jacqueline: a lot. Yeah.
Ryan: And so you have just worked so so hard over these years to get to that point and so well deserved. And, um, that’s a, that’s awesome.
And, and what a, what a great, uh, example, right. Is, uh, you could have spent the last three years just kind of, kind of sitting in the Chipotle line going, Oh, you know, like, I don’t know, I’ll figure it out when I get there, but instead you said, okay, what can I do with this extra time, with this extra energy?
Um, there’s so, so, so much [00:32:00] that, that goes into what you do that, that nobody ever sees like all that, the behind the scenes stuff, um, that you’re right. If, if, if you were in a relationship, there’s a good chance that you wouldn’t have been able to throw yourself into it to that extent. And so, um, way to not wait.
For, uh, uh, um, wait for permission to step into it, but just to say like, no, I’m going to double down on this this time and take advantage of the advantages to, to being single. That’s like, yeah, just, I’m just super proud of
you. So well done.
Jacqueline: That means so much. Yeah. It’s really about perspective too. And even too, I think like another thing that I I think I probably struggle with this the most out of anything, like, I have really great friends here in Greenville, like, I’m not lonely by any means, and, you know, I’m, I’m fine in that regard, but I think the one thing that bothers me the most is around family holidays, it’s like, I would like my significant other to be able to experience, like, my family, right, like, [00:33:00] while, while we’re all here, while we’re all together, and, That’s a desire of mine, but recently I kind of flipped that on the head and I said, okay, but if I can’t have this, what have I been able to do over the past few years?
And I’ve been able to spend so much more time with my parents than I otherwise would have had. And like, I went, I went with them, Ryan. Last year we took two trips, uh, To Isle of Palms in Charleston. It was so much fun, but those were just like two trips that I never would have been able to take if I was married.
Right? And those are memories that I’ll, I’ll have forever. So I think it’s taken me a while, but I’m finally learning that, like, to every thought I have, there’s an opposite thought. Right? And it’s the thought that you like, hold on to is the one that will stay. So it’s just about it. Being discerning, and I guess like, extra diligent about what, you know, you’re allowing to remain in your mind.
Ryan: And doubling down on gratitude for today. We’ll always be, I’m, I’m convinced the the hack to all of [00:34:00] this, um, is you got to go on those trips and be completely present with, with your parents in a way that you probably wouldn’t have been. Here’s, here’s an example for me. Um, I spent, my parents live in Georgia.
Um, I have one brother, uh, who has three amazing kids, um, they live, and his wife, they live right up the street. I love them to death. For Thanksgiving, I got to go to Georgia just by myself without them and spend time with my, spend five days with my
parents. For Christmas, we’re all getting on a plane, and we’re all going down to Georgia to, to spend time.
Uh, it’ll be the couple of days after, after Christmas, um, together, both of those trips are going to be beautiful. Both of those trips are going to be completely different, right? When it was just me with my parents, we got to have like really deep, thought provoking questions about the world and spirituality and the [00:35:00] country and, and all of that and like dive into the
depths. When we’re with the kids, we’re going to be chasing kids around, you know, I’m going to be on like. Uncle duty the entire time. Now, both are amazing, right? But
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Ryan: if I spent Christmas wishing I could just be with my parents by myself and have these deep conversations, then we’re going to miss out on the magic of the Christmas one.
And if I spent Thanksgiving being like, I wish we had the kids around running, running around, then I’m going to miss out on the Thanksgiving one. And so I think the point is that there’s beauty to be found in every situation. Um, you just have to, to learn how, how to have gratitude for where you’re at today.
Jacqueline: good. And speaking of relationships too, Ryan, so I’m really curious how you’ve dealt with this because. Again, I’m 29, so I’m at an age where like, some of my friends have already had children, some are getting married right now. Obviously the nature of friendships are changing, right, especially when you introduce a spouse and then children into the mix.
So like, how have you been able [00:36:00] to still play a significant role, right, and have like a significant relationship with your friends as they are entering these new stages? And like, I mean, for me, for example, like Life is not a race, right, but there are certain milestones and I feel like when my friends hit those milestones I’m like wait, like don’t leave me here.
Like I haven’t made it yet Like just wait for me, but you know, you’re cheering them on at the same time But how do you just handle like the nature of those changing relationships like finding your place into their new? Their new life, essentially.
Ryan: That’s such an important question. I’m so passionate about this question. I’m such a proponent of, uh, single people having a seat at the community of people who are all married with kids. And I say that because that’s my life. Um, a few of my friends are, are single, um, core, core friends. Um, but my, the majority, like 85 percent of my, my core, uh, friendships are with, uh, married people who have [00:37:00] young kids.
Um, And so I had to make a decision several years ago, um, you know, I, I could become like the, the bitter single guy that’s like, I’m going to go find some other friends who are single and we’re going to, you know, or I could go, no, these are the people I love. I’m going to celebrate where they’re at. And, and this is key.
I’m going to have the courageous conversations that are necessary, um, to let them know that I still very much want to be. A part of their life, even though my life stage looks a little different. Now those courageous conversations aren’t always easy, but when you’re, um, brave enough to have it and it’s reciprocated Um from from your friends like we’re we’re all at a point where um, it’s not a thing at all It’s just like amazing and even like my being an uncle or all of my friends Kids like I get to be in all of their lives and um, it’s a it’s like this really [00:38:00] really Fun thing because I realized when I walk into that dinner party I actually have something that I bring to the table as the single guy that everybody else Can’t bring to the table because they’re all chasing kids
around, right?
And so, like, very practically speaking, um, you know, I go over to a friend’s house and, uh, my, my friends are, uh, trying to, to cook and trying to set the table and, uh, meanwhile, they’re, they’re chasing their kids, uh, around everywhere. And so they’re thinking about all of those things. I don’t have to think about any of that, which means I could just show up and just think about myself the entire night if I wanted.
Or I could see this as an opportunity to go, but look at the freedom that I have
here. And so how could I help be a blessing instead of a burden in this situation and go chase their kids around for the next 20 minutes and give them a break? You know what I mean?
Jacqueline: That’s so true.
Ryan: Yeah. And so seeing it as like, no, I’m actually bringing a blessing into this, this [00:39:00] situation instead of a burden.
Um, that was a big flip for me. Um, And, and a little bit of honest conversation can go a really long way
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Ryan: regard.
Jacqueline: Here’s another question for you, Ryan. So, something I’m starting to think about, too, is Again, I’ve, I’ve kind of been set in my ways, so to speak, for the past few years, right? Like, I have my routine. To your point, you can choose what you want to do, what you don’t want to do. So, like, how do we enjoy that?
Like, how do we enjoy those good aspects of being single? While also recognizing that, like, hey, I’m like this might have to change these habits might have to change in the future if I get married right like what is the balance because you don’t want to become too set in your ways if again like God does have marriage in your future where like you meet someone and then it’s like sorry like this is my life.
I don’t have room for them. Does that make sense?
Ryan: Totally makes sense. I think, um, a lot of my friends get married really young. [00:40:00] And that’s a really beautiful thing. Um, like, your 20s are a very formative decade. Um, and so I watch them have to really, like, figure out who they are alongside somebody else. Um, so it’s like two people trying to figure out who they are together and then trying to figure out their, their marriage.
Um, and again, there’s a lot of beauty to that. There’s also a lot of beauty into figuring out who you are going through
your twenties single.
Jacqueline: Yes.
Ryan: right.
Jacqueline: Yeah, I if I look at my like 22 year old self I mean I was in a relationship at the time But like I wouldn’t recognize that person and I can’t imagine like being married at that age because I’m a completely different person now So like what would my spouse be like
Ryan: Yeah, right. And so there’s also something beautiful about the, the journey that you’re on now. Here’s the hard part for us is we’ve also had more time to kind of get set in
our ways.
And so this cement’s not as wet, you know, it’s a little more, a little more set. And so, [00:41:00] um, Again, to like the young person, the 22 year old listening who has their heart set on marriage, go for it.
I think that’s a beautiful, beautiful thing, but there’s going to be challenges that come along the way. And to the 32 year old who is like, yeah, but okay, but I’ve kind of figured out who I am, but now I’m going to go into this relationship and I’m a little nervous cause I am a bit set in my ways. I say, good.
Like what a beautiful thing to let somebody come in and disrupt and stir. The illustration I use is stir the stagnant water in your soul, right? Like that is a good thing because the truth is water that is moving is good and healthy water that sits too long gets stagnant and becomes a swamp and stagnant water starts to stink,
right? And so I think it’s so good for us, um, to, to allow God to interrupt our routine in that way. And I think that’s part of the beauty of God’s design for marriage is it’s two people [00:42:00] helping each other keep the, the, the stagnant water stirring. Um, my thing and what I write about a lot in the book is, okay, that’s great for them, but what about someone who is single, who doesn’t necessarily have somebody in their life stirring the water?
And that’s where I go. Yeah. You can still do that as a single person. You just have to be a lot more, uh, committed and intentional, uh, about, um, your thought life and about your community and, uh, about the way that you design your life. Um, but long winded way of saying like to the person who’s like, yeah, but I’m kind of set in my ways.
And so I don’t know that I want that.
Like, Hey, that’s a good, it’s, it’s good to, to let, let the, let the second water get stirred up. You know what I
Jacqueline: Yeah. No, it’s so funny. I, I definitely had my water stirred like three weeks ago. My parents came to visit me from New Jersey and they stayed with me a few days and it was so funny because my dad was just like. He’s like, Jacqueline, he’s like, you like, like, I’m so strict with my schedule. Like, I am in bed, Ryan, by like 930 because I wake up early and I have work.
So I [00:43:00] like to keep to that, but it was just funny because when you’re living with someone else, right, it just exposes like all of these things about yourself that you never even, you know, gave thought to because it’s, it’s you, right? Like,
Ryan: Yeah, that’s why, uh, you worry so much, not worry so much, but, but you are on edge when somebody comes over to your place and you’re like, Oh, this room, everybody’s got that drawer or that room or that something, you know, where it’s like, that’s where we don’t worry about that until somebody else shows up.
And then you’re like, I hope they don’t open that closet door,
Jacqueline: Yep. Yep. So true. No, I love that. Yes. Stirring the stagnant water. There was another phrase that you wrote about that I, I really, really loved. I highlighted it and marked it up, but it was intensity isn’t intimacy. Can you elaborate on this for for listeners who haven’t read your book yet?
Ryan: Yeah. Intimacy is, uh, One of our, our greatest desires as a human, I think, is to be fully known [00:44:00] and fully loved, fully known and truly loved. Um, intimacy, uh, being, uh, uh, the example of that, that I talk about in, in one of the chapters of, of the book. And that is a good God honoring thing. And by the way, to whoever’s watching this, that’s how God Um, he, he knows the real you, not the performance you or the perfectionist you, but he, he knows who you really are and he loves the, the true you, um, we are constantly searching for that in other people.
Um, we do that through community, but also marriage, of course, is like the ultimate example of that when it comes to, to human relationships and God. Um, my worldview is that God designed that and that it’s good and that it’s good to meet somebody and pursue somebody and date somebody and fall in love with somebody and learn, uh, who somebody is and commit to them emotionally and geographically and financially and [00:45:00] Ultimately, after getting married physically, um, and that that is a beautiful thing.
Um, much of the world today tells you just to skip all of that and, and move straight to the, the intensity, or I’m sorry, straight to the physical part of, of that, which I’m referring to like hookup culture of like, no, just go out and meet somebody and hook up with them. And don’t really worry about the consequences.
Um, to me, That is not actually the intimacy that you’re looking for. That’s intensity masking itself as intimacy. So because the emotions are so heightened in the moment, you feel like, Oh, this is what my soul is, is looking for. And until the next day where you end up feeling duped and depleted and feeling like, wait, why is there something wrong?
And then you end up needing the same thing the next weekend or whatever it is. And, um, one of the things I like to talk about is. But yeah, that is, that is. [00:46:00] I’ll say it like this, intensity is intimacy’s cheap counterfeit cousin.
Jacqueline: good,
Ryan: It masquerades as it, but it’s not actually it. And so, um, yeah, and that I always like to follow that up, um, with, with that’s the truth.
And then the grace is that, that God’s grace is sufficient. And of course, like his grace covers sins and, and all of like the past can be the past and today can be a new day and, and all of that. Um, but I do think it’s important in, in. When it comes to being single to, to talk about like, Hey, intimacy, the true intimacy that our soul is looking for, um, is not going to be found in like a cheap hookup culture that the world’s going to preach.
Jacqueline: right? Yeah, that’s so good And that message right there is what I remind myself of all the time like when I am desiring a relationship I realize at the end of the day like a relationship or a person it’ll never fulfill you. Sure, it’ll bring you joy and happiness, but like you’re, I mean, only God fulfills you.
And [00:47:00] I mean, in that same vein too, Ryan, I wanted to ask your thoughts on praying for your future spouse. So there’s a lot, especially on Instagram, like you’ll see all these posts of it, like here’s a prayers for your future spouse. And, and I think that’s beautiful, but at the same time too, I’m like, how do we also pray for a future spouse and like express that desire to God while also recognizing that like, Even if he doesn’t bring us one, like we could still be content in him, Like, how do you, how do you balance that?
Ryan: Great question. So you are keying into the, the thing beneath the thing is that the praying for the future spouse, I think is a beautiful thing. You’re keying into what’s I think actually really going on at some level is, Hey, if I do this, Um, can almost trick God into bringing me that spouse quicker,
sooner,
Jacqueline: Yeah. And like, I think, yeah, and I think Stephanie mentioned that too, but that’s exactly how you think, because it’s kind of like, Oh, like if I told God, [00:48:00] like I surrender and like, whatever your will is, like, then he’ll bring me my spouse. But it’s like, God already knows like our intentions and our thoughts, like you can’t dupe God.
But I guess my question is like, yeah, like what is the proper order? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Ryan: Yeah,
Jacqueline: doing that.
Ryan: so funny as if like the creator of the universe falls for reverse
psychology, you know
Jacqueline: Exactly!
Ryan: Um, okay, I used to uh beat up on on that a lot and then As I think as I’ve gotten older, I’ve grown to just really appreciate it and realize like, hey, it’s just people trying their best, you know, like you’re doing your best with, um, with where you’re at.
Probably that person is feeling really lonely. Um, why not pray for your, your future spouse? Um, like why, why not? Uh, pray that God would bless that person wherever they’re at. Like that’s a win win to, to me, um, is, uh, uh, [00:49:00] worst case you end up spending five minutes, not thinking about yourself and
thinking about somebody else and, and, and blessing them.
Like that’s a, that’s a win. Um, but to your point, I do think, um, it’s also really important to remember, um, with all prayer that, uh, with all of spirituality is that like, God’s not a vending machine. Um, we’re not doing these things, uh, in order that, uh, he’s, God’s not a means to an end. I think at first God is a means to an end.
Um, Eventually the goal is to fall so in love with God, God stops being a means to an end and starts being the end in and of itself,
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Ryan: where you’re worshiping, not so that you get your breakthrough, but you’re worshiping because that’s what you do. You’re created to do and you just want to spend time with God or, um, you’re reading scripture.
Here’s a big one for me reading scripture. Um, not so that I have like the next zinger to [00:50:00] be able to share with, with somebody and, and show them like how smart I am, you know, like the silly games that we play. But, but rather reading scripture because it’s God’s word to me. I love spending that time with him.
And so, um, that that’s, it’s all part of the process. Um, and so, um, I don’t, I think it’s great to, to pray for your future spouse. I also think it’s, it’s great to, to realize that even if
right,
Jacqueline: Yeah. Even if
Ryan: what happens,
um,
Jacqueline: should be the name of your next book.
Even if.
Ryan: if I think that should be maybe you write it.
Jacqueline: Yeah, I mean, I’ve been thinking with all my free time now I’m going to have, you know, might as well start writing a book.
Ryan: Are you thinking about it?
Jacqueline: I actually am. I have, I have a Google doc that I started. It’s only like, it’s like 10 pages.
I don’t even know, like, I mean, I’ll, I’ll keep you posted, but it covers a lot right now. I haven’t quite narrowed down what exactly I want to actually write about, but
Ryan: That’s awesome.
Jacqueline: yeah,
Ryan: I think I think you should do it I think I’d be great.
Jacqueline: [00:51:00] yeah, well, you’ll be the first person I tell if I end up doing it.
Ryan: Let me know.
Jacqueline: Awesome, Ryan. Well, I can’t believe we’re almost on the hour. Um, you mentioned living today, um, importance of presence.
Are there any other mindset shifts for someone struggling with singleness that you’d want to share?
Ryan: Yeah one more that’s on my heart is Grasping verse laughing
Jacqueline: Hmm. That’s good.
Ryan: Two fundamentally different ways to approach a day grasp grasping on to everything that happens and trying to control it all verse learning how to laugh Um, I think laughter is a beautiful gift from, from God, especially when it comes to dealing with singleness. Um, when you can learn how to laugh about things, it changes everything.
So like, and I, I don’t mean like cheap laughter. Um, because that’s a thing. But when you can get to the point where you can actually [00:52:00] laugh about your, your singleness and laugh about whether it was like a, a failed attempt or bad day or rejection or whatever, when you can get to the point where you can laugh about that thing, um, you know that you’re no longer grasping to it.
Um, I, tonight. Uh, we were doing a party for, um, all of the volunteers at the church that I’m a part of. And, um, my singleness will be, uh, the joke of like 30 percent of it will be about, will be jokes about my singleness
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Ryan: hanging
fruit. Right. And that used to just drive
me
Jacqueline: sure.
Ryan: Right, like I used to internalize all of that, and I would smile, but then I’d drive home just feeling like there’s something wrong with me. Um, I will be the first one laughing tonight, and it won’t be forced. It’ll just be fun. Um, because I don’t grasp on to, to singleness. I don’t grasp on to marriage. I don’t grasp on to, to relationship.
Chips. I [00:53:00] have my other things that the Lord’s still working on me with, but with this topic, um, I have just learned to get to a point where I can just completely laugh about all of it. Um, and, and learn how to celebrate where I’m at today. Um, and so that doesn’t come easily. It hasn’t come easily for me has come through a lot of pain.
Um, it’s come through a lot of like the inner work, but it is possible to get to the point where you are, um, where you’re. Grasping less and you’re laughing a lot more. And I think, especially as you go, uh, into the holidays, if somebody needs this, um, what if that’s like in the back of your mind, when, when your family starts asking those questions, less grasping, more laughing,
Jacqueline: So good.
Ryan: when you watch that, that holiday movie and you, you see some couple fall in love over Christmas, less crap,
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Ryan: right?
Um, I think that that mindset can go a long, long way.
Jacqueline: I love that. I’m going to write that down and put it as a post it note or just text you when I need a reminder. Be like, Ryan, help, Christmas dinner.
Ryan: I need to laugh more. [00:54:00] Totally.
Jacqueline: I love that, Ryan. Well, this has been the best therapy session by far that I’ve ever had. So I just appreciate you so much. Um, you’re so great. We’re going to be, we’re going to be really good friends. I can tell you’ll have to, again, when you visit your family, Greenville is not that far from, from Georgia. So
Ryan: Yes.
Jacqueline: up, but where can listeners find you and pick up a copy of your latest book?
Ryan: Yeah. So the book’s called single today. Uh, it’s available on, on Amazon or wherever books are sold. My website is Ryan Weckman. com. Um, and you can sign up for, uh, um, um, in next, next year, I’m going to try to lock in. I have like a news newsletter thing, but I don’t. Respond to it. So I’m going to start locking that in next year.
Um, and, uh, I just have so much content that, that I want to share. Um, and then Instagram is the easiest way to follow me to get all those updates. Um, and may I just say, thank you for, for having me and thank you for the space that you are creating. Um, it is so, so, so important and so well done.[00:55:00]
Jacqueline: Awesome. Thank you so much, Ryan. I really appreciate that. I will be linking all of those in the show notes. But my last question for you, I don’t know if you’re expecting this one, it’s my favorite one to ask, and that is, what does being well and strong mean to you?
Ryan: Yeah, it means that no matter what comes your way today, you can learn how to, to put a smile on your face and laugh about where you’re at and, um, be genuinely grateful for, uh, whatever circumstance, whether it’s, whether it’s really hard or really easy,
um, that
you are going through today.
Jacqueline: Awesome. Beautiful, Ryan. Thank you so much. Uh, excited to have you back on again at some point,
Ryan: Let’s do it.
I’m in.
